Hi Mam Pilar!

I've taken an interest in wedding photography and I've gone on a few VA assignments with 2 wedding photographers, both of whom I have the highest regard for. One of them critiqued my shots and he commented that although my shots were OK as far as the subject was concerned, my backgrounds were not (some were distracting, others made the subject blend instead of stand out).

After looking at my shots, I noticed what he was pointing out, which brings me to my question: would you let a decisive moment pass by because the background was distracting? Or if the background is distracting although your subject is interesting, perhaps it's still not a decisive moment?

I enjoy taking candids, which happen at the spur of the moment. However, I often do not have the luxury of composing the shot fast enough to capture a certain expression or reaction.

I'd appreciate your thoughts on this, especially since this is your field, and hopefully my field soon. To the others, your thoughts are very much welcome as well (and needed :Grin:)

Many thanks :)

Jason,

I am certain Pilar will comment on this soon, but I might as well tell you what I know from doing most of her post processing work. She has told me that when you shoot enough weddings, you can almost predict with certainty what will happen next. Knowing this she would already positon herself in the perfect vantage point to capture that decisive moment. Majority of the time she does not have distracting backgrounds.

My comment to you is that experience will simply make you better. You will find that you also will tend to photograph the same church and reception venues as you do more weddings because there really aren't tons of places to get married here. Pilar said she feels like she can shoot the Santuario de San Antonio in Forbes blindfolded since she knows practically every angle there.

Lets wait for her to chime in here later.

Thanks, sir Nick!

Your reply is very encouraging, insofar as pointing out that experience is still the best teacher. Was beginning to doubt my compositional skills :( I guess I'm still trying to find my groove in not being too caught up in the moment and forgetting to set the shot up right.

Will apply your advice on my next VA assignment :)

Hi Jason,

I guess Nick beat me to the punch in answering your question:Angry: ... Anyway, Nick explained what I was about to say perfectly... When I first started wedding photography, I just kept my eyes glued on the couple, waiting for something to happen. I was not very concious of the background, lighting, or preety much anything that could have made a better impact. after photographing so many weddings, you can predict what will happen minutes before it actually does. All you have to do is position yourself where your bground , lighting and composition will make your image have more impact. Subject, lighting, composition and "decisive moment" Wow what a combination! We have it easier here since more or less we work with the same type of ceremony.. 90% of the time (Catholic or Christian) same location for reception (at least for me) so we are more aware of when a hightlight will happen. ex, bride marching down the aisle, dont just look at the bride...the groom could be choking up in tears.... find a nice angle and photograph him. There are so many scenarios which are predictable. All you have to do is be at the right spot and aim.:Grin: Beleive me, you will get the hang of it. It will become second nature to you. Just be patient and try to be more concious of the whole "big picture". Good luck and please post your photos so we can take a look and maybe critique them if you are open to that.

Great suggestions, Mam! I'll try them out at my next assignment.

In hindsight, I did find myself being caught flatfooted at times because I stayed with the bride too long, or the maid of honor was cute (more often then not :)) Just have to be more aware of what's going on.

Thanks again to both of you. I'm sure you have many more tips for those just getting started in wedding photography like me. We'll be eagerly awaiting your posts.

God bless :)

PS: For my shots to be critiqued by someone like you would be most welcome! Will be posting some soon. Thanks in advance

Hello Jason,
im no expert but im curious what that photgraph ur mentor was talking about? would be nice to see it and maybe we can comment on it better? what do you think? patingin naman, so we can learn more from it?

Dodie


[quote=jason_deguzman]Hi Mam Pilar!

I've taken an interest in wedding photography and I've gone on a few VA assignments with 2 wedding photographers, both of whom I have the highest regard for. One of them critiqued my shots and he commented that although my shots were OK as far as the subject was concerned, my backgrounds were not (some were distracting, others made the subject blend instead of stand out).

After looking at my shots, I noticed what he was pointing out, which brings me to my question: would you let a decisive moment pass by because the background was distracting? Or if the background is distracting although your subject is interesting, perhaps it's still not a decisive moment?

Hi sir Dodie!

Here goes nothing (http://jasondeg.multiply.com/photos/photo/3/61)...

http://jasondeg.multiply.com/photos/photo/3/61http://jasondeg.multiply.com/photos/photo/3/61This is not the original image that my mentor commented on (can't remember which one it is :p) , although this image pretty much deserves the same comment. I saw the bride flash a smile, locked focus and tripped the shutter. Upon review, the window frame betrays a skewed composition and it looks like it's sticking out of the subject's head.

I think I've learned to be more critical of my backgrounds after my mentor's comments and Nick/Pilar's advice, although it still happens from time to time. Practice, practice, practice... :)

Sometimes, photoshop can be a real big help! You can "fix" this real easily with the clone stamp. :)

Sometimes, photoshop can be a real big help! You can "fix" this real easily with the clone stamp. :)
I know! Actually, I'm just getting the hang of things in PS, but the clone and healing tools can be quite addicting :)

Still trying out your advice with curves and levels though, since these are very subjective tools.

If you don't mind, Mam, maybe I can e-mail you a picture that needs post-processing and you can post a before and after comparison using curves and levels. Only when you have the time :)

Post a BEFORE picture here and send us a copy via email. We'll edit your photo and then post an AFTER here.

I know! Actually, I'm just getting the hang of things in PS, but the clone and healing tools can be quite addicting :)

Still trying out your advise with curves and levels though, since these are very subjective tools.

If you don't mind, Mam, maybe I can e-mail you a picture that needs post-processing and you can post a before and after comparison using curves and levels. Only when you have the time :)


Hi Sure. Will wait for the post:)

Jason,

I was expecting a wedding picture since this is the forum.

I also downloaded the file and it doesn't have an embedded profile. You might want to check your camera settings. Our preference is to set it for Adobe RGB. sRGB is also okay. Or was this shot taken in RAW? Please advise because the colors will change drastically once I embed my own profile into the picture.

Oops, my bad! :(

Got too caught up in the discussion of PS applications that I forgot this was a wedding forum. Anyway, here's a wedding picture in desperate need of correction:

http://static.flickr.com/53/159140548_de51353544.jpg

Again, sorry for the oversight. Looking forward to your take on this.

Sir Nick, I'll e-mail you the full-res version with the color profile embedded. Thanks again :)

Jason,

I was able to download the file and opened on our monitor. Our image is much darker than what is presented here in the web. These are the issues with color management because what you see on your monitor won't be the same as what I would see. The web also shows photos differently.

Pilar is beside me now and is also sharing her comments. This image is underexposed, soft, and has a strong yellow cast. Also the bride's arm is chopped off. The blacks are practically clipped. Sometimes an image may not be worth editing (not saying this one is not worth it) and just move on. Anyway for this exercise lets experiment a bit:

1) crop for better composition
2) remove some of the yellow cast
3) possibly lift the shadows (but if we do will introduce noise)
4) maybe put a little effect to enhance the mood of the image

if the above moves don't seem to be working well then possibly then we will try a black and white.

We'll send it back via emal and you can post it.

Remember though about our comment about color management and colors on the web. The differences may not be easy to see. Also, we edit our pictures for print which is different than editing for the web.

Hi sir Nick and Mam Pilar!

Thanks for all your comments! For the benefit of those who may be following this thread, here's the image after being processed by sir Nick:

http://static.flickr.com/71/159355031_80fa9f058f.jpg

Going back to your comments, the yellow cast was obvious, but it was only now that I noticed the awkward cropping of the bride's arm. I guess I dwelt too much on the smile of the subject (again) and failed to compose correctly.

The colors are much more natural now, plus the picture has a certain glow to it (soft focus?). Again, thanks for sharing the possibilities. Pls do share the steps you took in processing the image. I'd very much like to learn :)

Hi Jason,

Glad you like the changes. The Photoshop moves were very basic so you should have no problem doing them yourself. Eventually we may move this thread to the Photoshop forum since this is no longer about the Decisive Moment. But for now it stays.

Anyway, this is what I did:

1) CROPPED the image to focus more on the bride and get rid of background distractions.
2) Corrected Tone and Color with LEVELS. Tweaked individual channels until I felt that I got the proper color. Focused mainly on the Blue channel since the cast was basically Yellow. Played with the Red and Green channels slightly for Color Balancing.
3) BLURRED the entire image. Since the image was soft to start, I decided to Blur the entire thing to provide a soft focus as you commented. Duplicated background layer and applied GAUSSIAN BLUR filter. 25 pixel Blur then reduced opacity of top layer to 50%.
4) DODGE AND BURN. I then just dodged and burn the image. I don't usually use the dodge and burn tools. I prefer using an Overlay layer at 50% grey. If you haven't yet tried this, you should because it is simple and provides tremendous flexibility. Place an empty layer on top of your layer stack. Fill with 50% grey by going to EDIT > FILL > 50% grey. Then change blend mode of layer to OVERLAY. Reduce the opacity of your brush to around 8-12%. You simply paint with White to dodge and Black to burn.
For this image, I Dodged and Burned the brides face to even out the lighting. You may notice that lighting on her face looks more even.
I Dodged the highlights on her hair. I also Dodged the pearl earring, the tiara, the dress and the veil.
I Burned slightly her eye brows and lips. I also Burned slightly her shoulder to give some shape to her arm.

From here I flattened the image.

5) My last move was to LIQUIFY her arm. Did you notice it looks slimmer? If you didn't then it means I did a good job. Duplicated the now flattend background file. FILTER > LIQUIFY. I used 50 pressure and slightly lifted the brides arm to make it smaller. We actually never use this move unless the bride actually demands for it. You can make someone look slimmer through Dodging and Burning instead.

Jason,

As Nick has said, the photo requires a lot of work than usual. Can you imagine shooting a wedding and doing this type of work for a significant portion of your pictures? Hence, try to get it right as much as possible at the viewfinder. :)

Below is my attempt on your photo. Tried posting is last night but could not figure it out. Thanks for the info btw.

http://static.flickr.com/71/159626207_3f11197394_o.jpg

Many ways to skin the cat, as they say. I basically worked with curves for the tone and color correction. Notice the guy's head has shape now compared with the previous photo where it blended with the background. Also kept it a bit warm to keep some of the ambient light. Cropped it to improve focal point. And a necessary step, as Nick previously mentioned, trim them arms. :)

Happy snaps.

I like the way Arnel was able to separate the groom's hair with the background. I love the way Nick did a soft mood with the photo.. hmm.. probably a combination of both? :)

as what arnel said.. many ways to skin a kitty. :)

To Mam Pilar, sirs Nick and Arnell,

Thank you so much for all your inputs. It gives me a sense of where I am now and where I need to go in terms of my photography and PS skills, not to mention the eye for details.

Sir Nick, good job on the arm. I didn't even notice!

Sir Arnell, I know what you mean by getting the shot right the first time. My first paid gig was for an event, and I basically flubbed 80% of the shots. It was either my white balance was off or my focussing was soft. Spent the next 3 days in PS trying to produce something decent for the client. Pulled it off, but barely!

Anyway, going back to the decisive moment, I will definitely take all your suggestions into consideration, and hopefully when a decisive moment comes, I'll be better prepared.

Again, many thanks! :)

Sir Nick,

This a great suggestion , the before and after photshop. Iknow a lot of photgraphers who realy edit their pictures. I seldom do for the simlple reason that I dont know how! bwahahahah.

Maybe another thread on photoshop techniques and how to achive the resluts can be shared here?

Dodie

Post a BEFORE picture here and send us a copy via email. We'll edit your photo and then post an AFTER here.

Hi Jason,

your so polite:). but pls im no "SIR" compared to our mentors here.Im just a newbie. :D

[quote=jason_deguzman]Hi sir Dodie!

Sir Nick,

This a great suggestion , the before and after photshop. Iknow a lot of photgraphers who realy edit their pictures. I seldom do for the simlple reason that I dont know how! bwahahahah.

Maybe another thread on photoshop techniques and how to achive the resluts can be shared here?

Dodie


I agree. This is what the Photoshop forum is for. We should all share techniques. One of our moderators, Amiel Lapuebla is a Photoshop champion. He bested the world in the NAPP (National Association of Photoshop Professionals) contest in 2005 and submitting only one entry. He posted two photos here that everyone should check out. Amiel is now in France and will be back in two weeks. He will share with us some of his techniques. If you have any questions, post them in the Photoshop forum. They will be answered.

i edit 99% of my photos. i don't know why but i'm OC especially with the cropping...or maybe i just want to do more (even if it really doesn't need it, hehe). what can i do though?! is there a photo-editing-addicts anonymous round here? hehe

superb editing nick and arnell. pros...hah...what can you expect! :)

cheers!

Hi Mam Pilar!

....After looking at my shots, I noticed what he was pointing out, which brings me to my question: would you let a decisive moment pass by because the background was distracting? Or if the background is distracting although your subject is interesting, perhaps it's still not a decisive moment?....

Many thanks :)

Use the right tool for the job. If you had a medium to long tele e.g 70-200 or 75-300.. compress and blur out the background..

Photoshop is the easy way out.. it doesnt help you become a better photographer.. just a better photoshop user. Key skills in being a good photojournalist is honing your observational and response to click skills ;)

a decisive moment happens only in one second so thinking of background and other details might cost you the shot. it may be terrible technically but at least you caught it.

:<)