Have you ever been to a wedding gig and the coordinator forgot to feed you and your group? What will you do if that happens? ..... or is it ok for you to eat crew meal? :Grin:

Post your experience and what you did.

:)

For me, one of the reasons why I entered photography is to enjoy the perks of the job. One of our benefits is to eat whatever it is that the guests are eating. Always assert your rights and you are a professional that doesn't have to be treated like a lower being. What you can do is to eat before or after the event. In my case, the driver always gets food for us and I talk to the Catering Manager, tell him or her that the food looks and smells great, I would really appreciate if they prepare separate plates for 5 people and we have our own table.

We also eat by batch and not at the same time so that someone is still shooting while the other crew are eating. Don't let anyone even the coordinator treat you less than what you deserve. If they ran out of food, they should provide a decent meal for you equal or better than the ones served since you are tired already and did a good job. This should always be included in your contract to protect yourself and your dedicated crew.

Have you ever been to a wedding gig and the coordinator forgot to feed you and your group? What will you do if that happens? ..... or is it ok for you to eat crew meal? :Grin:

Post your experience and what you did.

:)



No, not yet. A children's birthday though, we were not fed, but that is a different story.

In our country at least, it is BAD form not to feed even the people working behind the scenes. It's unheard of. It is bad manners. In the USA, I've read that sometimes they are given only sandwiches or served separate food.

Even doing low end weddings for some friends who subcon me, we all get treated and fed well. It is part of our culture.

What I do, however, in the signing of the contract or even verbally, I tell the couple that the crew will be composed of 4-5-6 depending on the package. That is the least of the courtesy I give them because, it does cost them money to feed us. In one wedding, the cost is P750 per head/plate. So, if we are 6 or like the last time we were 9, you do the math and you will see it's no small pittance for them. And because I know this, I also make sure that all the members of the team are legit to be there. Walang sabit lang para libre kain.

Like Eric, we also eat in batches. I also ask the other assistants to get food for us. This is so we can shoot while the others are eating. Or if we are many like that 9 team, the couple gave us a table to ourselves.

Do not be ashamed to ask for food or be fed. Why? Think about it: a typical wedding day is 8-12 hours. don't tell me you won't get hungry or go hypoglycemic after all those hours! I tell the couple that, so they know that we are also human and need sustenance.

A final tip though. Even if the food is in abundance, or good, DO NOT EAT all you can. Eat only to be nourished. And eat less carbo so you won't get sleepy. Try to avoid too much fatty stuff. I repeat this -- EAT only to sustain you or give you strength. Why? Because if you eat too much, you will get drousy/sleepy. And when that happens, you can't shoot properly. Your concentration is off, and you can't focus. I tell my team that. I also guarantee them that after the event, I will treat them to all they can eat if they are still hungry.

I've had a lady shooter who didn't listen to this advice and got so full she couldn't even stand! She was sidelined the rest of the reception and when I should be taking easy, I had to take her spot! I had to work extra because she ate too much!

At the reception, that's the time I let the 2nd stringers and apprentice shoot (unless there's something that's really special that requires my attention). I try to rest at that point after all, I've had the prep and wedding proper all sewn up and I do need to rest and slow down. But if I have to, I can crank it all up again. :D

-Mel

hi there,the experienced coordinators knows to feed most suppliers at the given time.The expereiced coordinators also reminds the couple to feed their suppliers if call time is around lunch time
i'm ok with crew meal because if it's a sit down dinner. there won't be time also to finish the food.. i would also at most times eat the crew meal (pika pika ) then after the wedding,,,if it's a buffet thing, i would just normally go to the buffet table and eat at the end of the wedding while my assistand does ending goodbye group shots etc..

I've had a lady shooter who didn't listen to this advice and got so full she couldn't even stand! She was sidelined the rest of the reception and when I should be taking easy, I had to take her spot! I had to work extra because she ate too much!


-Mel

what a funny anecdote, mel. i can just imagine how the scene would have looked like :Grin: then.

Luckily, all the clients I have and had; with their respective coordinators... treated me and my crew extremely well... :)

About the crew food stuff... OK lang :) Why not... Just as long as we get fed, I do not really look into that aspect of it with a very keen eye for detail...

Never had this experience pa naman pero I heard stories from a friend who shot a couple that only gave them sandwiches for dinner. The couple are even demanding more than what they have agreed upon like shooting the whole family after the reception.... with studio lights. I never thought these things happen.

I'm ok with crew meal 'coz I myself is a bit hesitant falling inline with the guests on buffet.

Do photographers state in their contracts about things like these?

Do photographers state in their contracts about things like these?

:) Not really Darwin... It's suppose be a "Given" already, considering technically you are also a guest... Unless otherwise specified by the client that you won't be fed or anything diba but that's another story...

I do include a "Decent Meal" in the contract, but I don't require the couple to provide us with a guest meal. We oftenly got to be fed with a guest meal which we appreciate alot, though we never complain when we are offered a crew meal. If the meal is not enough, I just treat my team and stop by a jollibee or mcdo on the way home.

If I feel that the coordinators are somewhat forgetting about our dinner, and there are only a few people lined up on the buffet table, I ask them straightforward. If there are no coordinators, I ask the bride or groom. We also eat by batch, that way we don't miss the action.

:)

what a funny anecdote, mel. i can just imagine how the scene would have looked like :Grin: then.


Well, it's true. She sat there in one of the chairs with her legs outstrecthed (she was wearing pants so no problem). She was half closing her eyes with so much food. :Dum: Later on she felt awful. I told her just to sit down and watch our gear.

I guess it happened that way because we had the table all to ourselves. We were a 4 man crew. And there was no other free table left (it was a per table of 10 seats) so we got the table solo to ourselves. Maybe because nobody was looking and with all that food for 10 people spread for us, she ate a lot.


Oh, another thing, avoid greesy or oily foods. It's harder to digest. That too slows you down and can cause indigestion.


I also try to avoid food with too much tomatoes. Thank goodness no spaghettis on wedding receptions! but the reason for that is to avoid food poisoning. Ive heard enough of stories of this and you don't want to be sidlined or killed by one!:RedEye:

We always carry some stomach tablets or whatnots, but you do have to be careful. Prevention is better.

I always treat eating at receptions not as bonus or whatever. I treat it merely to replenish my energy, etc. I don't eat to enjoy as if I were a guest. In fact, I eat just enough. I don't fill myself. Many times, when I arrive home, I get hungry, and to think I just ate 3 hours before that!

Oh, I almost forgot. Don't ever, ver, ever drink alcoholic stuff when you work! I don't have to explain why.

Well, I did once. There was no more water and the waiter only had beer on the pitcher and because the food served me had too much greese and I was feeling queesy, I wanted to wash it a bit. :) I know tea is best, but they had none of that. So, I made this exception. Besides, it was closing time hence most of the stuff were already cleaned up or removed. But remember, this was an exception! In fact, we ourselves were removing our lights and the guests were almost all gone except the close relatives/family.


-Mel

I don't think it's an obligation of the couple to feed the suppliers. It's like going to a corporate office where lunch is not provided. Although one can always argue that during weddings, we are not really given a meal break.

I guess it boils down on how you want to run your business. You can demand a meal if you want to.

I don't include meals in my contract. If they don't feed us, then we'll buy our own food. For some reason, we shoot better when we're fed. :)

I don't think it's an obligation of the couple to feed the suppliers. It's like going to a corporate office where lunch is not provided. Although one can always argue that during weddings, we are not really given a meal break.

I guess it boils down on how you want to run your business. You can demand a meal if you want to.

I don't include meals in my contract. If they don't feed us, then we'll buy our own food. For some reason, we shoot better when we're fed. :)


That's true, Dino. In my case, I have to put it there just to protect myself. But our attitude is that the couple doesn't have to feed us. I tell that to my crew. I do mention it a lot verbally because they have to know that it will be a long day and we will get hungry.

I got to this position because a photo processing lab owner from Bulacan told me a story of how one client of hers had the photographer pull out a skyflakes cracker in front of the couple. Whether this was intentional or not, or a subtle ploy for the bride to feed the crew was irrelevant. The bride got pissed off by this behaviour that she reported it to the owner of the lab (who also do weddings on the side). This was when I was starting out in doing weddings. So, I was soaking up all those experiences by others.

This is why I always brief the crew about the status of our eating and all that. Most of the time, when they arrive at our house (our staging point), I order a bucket of kentucky and tell them to eat because it will be a long day.

In a wedding in tagaytay, at Leslie's, the couple was a bit known to my apprentice/partner and in fact got the contract from them so "we" are not strangers (I was but my other team mates weren't). That was one wedding where we never got the chance to eat. We started 11am and ended 11pm. Good thing we had some nick-knacks at the van then as my lightman was already hungry.

Finally, when all the guests are gone, the couple apologized to us. She ordered the head waiter & mgr to get our orders and bill it to them. Well, I smiled on that one because all was done for the day, and I could eat till I drop!:) My partner will be driving back home, and I could always sub after a couple of hours of rest.

Ahhh the food! It was good! I just made sure we did not exceed a certain amount and insult the couple as if we were taking revenge. I think our bill was around P1,200 give or take. Not bad for 4 very hungry people. P300/head is ok, maybe even P100 was on drinks.

We do need to eat as this example shows. But we are not picky. And like you, I won't mind if our food is different from the guest (in that one, it was even better!). Just as long as we get to eat!:D

wedding photography can cause high blood pressure. not just because of the stress involved, but also because of the food. i had a driver who had to quit because of this.

one reason i had to play tennis again. my weight gain was starting to get out of hand. and my bp shot up.

i don't include meals in my contract (unless it's an out of town job) but i expect to get fed. in the rare event that my meal is forgotten, i eat bread which i snatch from a passing waiter. if there's a buffet, i make myself a sandwich. it gets tricky though when it's a lauriat, so i usually tell my driver to buy me a sandwich somewhere.

:<)

I don't think it's an obligation of the couple to feed the suppliers. It's like going to a corporate office where lunch is not provided. Although one can always argue that during weddings, we are not really given a meal break.

I guess it boils down on how you want to run your business. You can demand a meal if you want to.

I don't include meals in my contract. If they don't feed us, then we'll buy our own food. For some reason, we shoot better when we're fed. :)

That's what I also thought. When we do studio shots crossing lunch break like 10am to 3pm we buy our own food and not the client. But it's always better if the client provides us meal. Just like what you said, we shoot better when we're fed
:Grin:

Of course photographers should be fed. The photographers will be given guest meals if they are guests otherwise, they eat crew meals. During my wedding, I told the coordinator that Eddie Boy Escudero and Anton Sheker are to be treated as guests. Give them what they want, bottomless drinks! Now if I were a hired photog, I'd expect to eat crew meals. If I'm a guest AND photographer, I'd eat guest meals.

It's also difficult for the couple to provide 1,200 a plate for their photographers and videographers, PLUS assistants! What a lot of suppliers don't know is that depending on the reception venue, plates and table settings are counted, not just the guests that walked in. I honestly have no idea how they keep track of this but I was charged an extra 6k because some body guards and drivers walked in the buffet. Good thing EBE doesn't have assistants! Hahaha!

Seriously though, expect to be fed, but don't expect guest meals if you're not really friends with the couple or either one of them.

No, not yet. A children's birthday though, we were not fed, but that is a different story.

Poor guys... :( He he :D

i know some wedding photogs include the crew meal in there contract.

That's true. Some specify that they eat guest meal. It really depends on your business practice.

In my own wedding, we were told beforehand by the Photographers' Team Leader/ Manager that we don't have to worry about their food. He even mentioned it proudly that they bring their own food and that no staff eat foods served in the wedding reception. Maybe its out of consideration with regards to how much it costs us (their client) for the foods per guest.

I guess it really depends on the photographer and if he really wants to be fed then put it in the contract. if the client signs it, whether its lauriat or 1,500 plate then he can demand to be served.

for me, i dont really find it an issue. i dont put it it my contract and i dont expect the couple to feed us. should there be an invitation from the couple or the coordinators then thank you. if there is none then i see to it the i treat my crew after the coverage.

the couple is already thinking of so many things during their special day. the least of their concerns is us -- "photographers".

if there are coordinators eating and they are not inviting the photographers, then most likely those are run of the mill types :)

fol

Whose responsibility is it (regarding feeding the photo/video crew?), the couple? the wedding coordinator (if there is one)?

Unless the folks that are walking down the aisle are not budget conscious, feeding an additional 5-10 people is a big dent in the budget as I'm sure most couples have already cut down their guest-lists considerably to fit within their budget.

Shouldn't the photo/video crew plan for their own meals ahead of time and just factor in the cost of their food in their coverage prices? If it is clearly indicated that their coverage requires the client to feed them, then at least the client can plan for it in their budget and decide whether or not such arrangement fits their budget.

I don't think it's fair to expect the bride and groom to worry about feeding the people they hired to cover their already-stressful-yet-important-event.

I'm sure you know that underneath those big smiles and happy tears, it hides the stress on the couple's budget and patience to prepare for that special day.

No offense to the pros here, but I just don't see why the client is obligated to feed the crew and add them to the guest-list since the photo coverage wasn't a freebie.

Unless it's out of town, of course, or if you're client is rich. But 8/10 clients you'll get probably are regular folks working 9-to-5.

I just want to share my recent experience.

It was a typical wedding, we just finished shooting at the church (UST), we have a small snack in between the chruch and the reception (1 pandesal each). When we got to the reception we were getting ready to shoot with the couple (a garden setting with tents) when the father of the bride suddenly got impatient (it was only 445pm, the ceremony was at 4pm) and he insisted to the couple to get in formation for the procession into the reception area. We strongly urged the couple to have the pictorial before the procession it would only take 15 mins, especially since it was raining we couldn't do the pictorial on the UST grounds. But in the end they followed the father's instructions and we started the reception at around 515.

We had coordinated with the host (friend of the groom) to do the per table shoot before the guests proceed to the buffet area. The first 2 tables went along as planned when suddenly the father of the bride talked to the host and he announced that everybody can proceed to the buffet area already bypassing the pictorial. The buffet area was at a very tight corner of the reception area and it really got very full very quick. The line had extened all the way across the entire reception area. At this point I glanced at the program the host had prepared, we were shooting both photos and video for this wedding. Then I glanced at the buffet area and the line was gone so I told 3 of my crew to go ahead and grab some food. At this same time a lot of guests started leaving and taking the souvenirs from the table (the small cupcake type souvenirs that look like a huge cake when plied together) The guests who were leaving requested for a photo with the couple. The long line that was previously on the buffet table shifted towards the couple's table (it was just 625). The cupcake arrangement vanished almost immedately and no part of the program had taken place. Then the three crew that I had sent to eat returned to me and said "wala nang food sir, karamihan ng guests naubusan na rin". It suddenly became clear why these people were leaving. I sent one crew member to the nearby mcdonalds to get us something to eat. When the dust had settled at around 715 the program commenced, with a little over 40 guests left plus the immediate family. The rain kept pouring and by 8pm we were all done. We shot their portraits using a combination of video lights and Nikon CLS to make it appear brighter than it actually was.

Needless to say this was our most disasterous wedding ever. It turned out that they invited only 100 guests and more than 150 turned up. When the food got low the manager of the venue, which is also the caterer told the couple but they did not have the money to spend for the additional guests. They brought only the exact amount that they were going to have to pay to their suppliers. I duly charged them the cost of our mcdonalds take out and they obliged without objection. We ended up eating right after the reception around 830. Thank god for McDonalds :Grin:

It's a must for a certain photographer if the couple wants their pictures.

Yeah it's a joke. HAR HAR

[quote=David Tong]Whose responsibility is it (regarding feeding the photo/video crew?), the couple? the wedding coordinator (if there is one)?

It is not really a rule but I suggest that you always talk to the coordinator regarding that. One it is not too forward since you are asking the coordinator. Also, the couple as we all know is too busy just to worry about the supplier's food.

if there is no coordinator then you can talk to the couple or the one who booked your services.

In my case I always factor in the cost of my crew food in all my wedding packages. At least if they feed us or not then i know i still have money to pay for my assistants.

fol

Fol: Thanks for the reply, that's what I was expecting with regards to photographer's mindset with this food issue. More on "nice if we were offered a meal, but we should expect none unless agreed upon" premise...

Naisip ko lang coz like our wedding before, we were young and budget was really tight, all our guests were immediate family members and close friends (around 80+), our reception was pegged at 100 guests so there were food for everybody (sit-down, not buffet). Our photos/video were covered by Bob's photography and they sent around 7 guys to do the job, they were definitely not in our budgetary plans, neither did they ask for food coverage.

Its very rare to have complete attendance during any wedding in which case we do eat what the guests are eating, with permission from the couple or the coordinator of course. We have done an event in which even the sound crew were included in the lauriat, they occupied one whole table hehehe

If the couple or the coordinator forget to feed us. I usually tell the bride or groom that we will buy our meal outside and reimburst it after their wedding..

Whose responsibility is it (regarding feeding the photo/video crew?), the couple? the wedding coordinator (if there is one)?

Shouldn't the photo/video crew plan for their own meals ahead of time and just factor in the cost of their food in their coverage prices? If it is clearly indicated that their coverage requires the client to feed them, then at least the client can plan for it in their budget and decide whether or not such arrangement fits their budget.

I don't think it's fair to expect the bride and groom to worry about feeding the people they hired to cover their already-stressful-yet-important-event.
It's not a matter of fairness. It's a matter of fact! May it be in stage rigging, stage construction, etc., the production takes care of feeding their suppliers unless otherwise stated. Now for weddings and similar events:

There are a lot of reception venues that prohibit the crew from bringing in food and drinks. If and when they do, the couple is still charged corkage. This is why we always refer to the couple. They have to know what's going on, what's allowed and what's prohibited.

Palms Country Club for example doesn't allow food to be brought in. They have a special menu for the crew meals and it is the couple again who chooses what that is. Alabang Country Club is another and so with Polo Club and many many others. Hey dude I got married too and when this was brought to my lap, I didn't find it unfair. It's just right. Now the question is what to feed them, crew meals or guest meals? I chose the latter.

I don't think it's an obligation of the couple to feed the suppliers. It's like going to a corporate office where lunch is not provided. Although one can always argue that during weddings, we are not really given a meal break.

I guess it boils down on how you want to run your business. You can demand a meal if you want to.

I don't include meals in my contract. If they don't feed us, then we'll buy our own food. For some reason, we shoot better when we're fed. :)

our friends in the industry, Boyet and Jet Versoza, operators of the top catering service http://www.josiahcatering.com, see to it that they reserve a special place for phtographers and video crew.

You won't go hungry if they're the caterers. Right Dino?

Hi Pocholo, sorry if I seem to hit a nerve, but that wasn't my intention.

My point simply is, for meals to be "expected" (as is the topic of the thread), it should be either pre-arranged with the couple, otherwise, for a cash-strapped client, it's likely an expense they don't want to spend.

If you have 200 guests, adding 3-4 more might not be a big deal, but if you only have 60 guest or so, it matters.

We always wait until the client tells us to eat, even when were starving! :Grin: Sometimes, it's after the party is over, especially when the client is busy entertaining. If they forget about the meal, we just eat elsewhere after the event.

The only time we were asked to eat with the "help" was at a foreigner-client's function. We were told to go to the "other room" where the household staff was eating.

in my case we do eat before the event at least too make sure at least to perform much beter on the big day. of course we also expect to be feed either way crew meal or guest basta importante you eat something on your stomach..if in case kulang we occasionally buy from outside.. we eat by batch just not to miss important shoots and time limit lang at 8mins will do..to give way to others.

Wow I did not realize that wedding photographers don't expect to be fed in a wedding. Ok guys, personally, it is stated in my contract that my crew and myself MUST be fed. I don't expect a guest meal or a 2,000 peso per dish for me and my crew but I expect a decent meal on a plate. I refuse to eat on the basement (some of you may not agree with me on this one) but on a normal daily basis I would not do it so why should I eat on the basement during a wedding coverage? I tried the bringing a sandwich trick but a sandwich does not taste the same after sitting in the car for 6 hours:Scared: (God knows what can grow on that)
Most of the time, the coordinators tell me that I have a guest meal or am part of the buffet but I thank them and tell them that I will be joining my crew instead. (back up photographers and driver) If I have 1 thing less to worry about that would make me and my team more focused. Having a 12 hour wedding coverage is not a real shocker anymore nowadays so you will need that energy. Oh and as a rule of thumb, I eat when the couple sits down to eat. I ask the coordinator if there will be any important highlight that willl happen and time my eating time around that.

buti na lang puro mababait yun mga naging client ko ,part of guest yun head count namin hehe :) kaya enjoy

Do photographers state in their contracts about things like these?

It's better if they do, as stating them in contracts help define expectations and prevent misunderstanding. Your bride or groom-to-be may not know what photographers consider as standard practice - it does not hurt to remind them. In the same way, some things that the wedding participants - whether bride, groom or mothers-in-law - expect, such as family portraits with studio lights - may not be standard service, but it's something photographers may like to offer as options, with corresponding additional pay, of course. It would help to tell them also to give you advance notice if they are choosing these options as certainly you would not want to be told on the wedding day itself, especially if you would need additional equipment.

:)

Have you ever been to a wedding gig and the coordinator forgot to feed you and your group? What will you do if that happens? ..... or is it ok for you to eat crew meal? :Grin:

Post your experience and what you did.

:) crew meal is better than none at all...

Hi All!

I am getting married soon and I am aware that this is an old thread and didn't want to create another thread for a simple question...

I have also read the entire thread and learned the following.


- Most of the time, it is stated in the contract that the supplier(s) (photographer, videographer, soundsystem, etc) is/are expected to be fed during the wedding.
- Some won't mind crew meals, some will

My question is, for suppliers who would mind served with crew meal, would it still bother you if your food was the same as the guests but not the same serving size?

Is my assumption true that suppliers will not have much time to sit down and eat a full course meal?

My question is, for suppliers who would mind served with crew meal, would it still bother you if your food was the same as the guests but not the same serving size?

Is my assumption true that suppliers will not have much time to sit down and eat a full course meal?

From videographer group Threelogy's FAQ section:

Do we have to feed you on our wedding day?

We won’t oblige you to, but would highly appreciate it if you do. When a videographer is hungry, he loses concentration and control of his movements. When he loses control of his movements, his shots will become shaky. When his shots are shaky, your video will make you dizzy! You wouldn’t want that do you?--

Full-course meal, crew size meal, suppliers meal, guest meal, it shouldn't really matter as long as you feed your suppliers properly. Treat them as you would like yourself to be treated if you're the one shooting 12 hours or more straight.

Folks,

I am not a wedding photo but having done a number of corporate events, there is no obligation for the host to feed your party unless it is part of the contract. You are being paid to do a job and anything beyond the agreement will be considered extra.

As somebody pointed out it is a cultural expectation. Here in the US unless its part of your job, you don't have to do it. How many times have I heard the phrase "it's not in my job description".

When I do a gig, I would dress not just as a photographer but as one of the guests. The only difference is I got a couple of cam bodies hanging around my neck but always look the part of a professional photographer mingling with the guests. I don't expect to be fed or drink champagne but always treated with respect.

NormT

I'm not really a pro wedding photographer but I sometimes accept sideline jobs from a small photo studio here in Bohol.

As most of you have already experienced when shooting an out of town wedding (probinsya). The people usually treat you like you are a guest and makes sure that you are comfortable. From what I experienced in shooting weddings here is that the photographers and videographers just squeeze in into vacant seats in the tables when eating. The couple would even ask you while shooting the cake slicing or table hopping if you and your crew have already eaten.

Of course there are exceptions, the couple would from time to time forget about feeding you. Its understandable because they are busy and stressed out from the activities of that day.

And I would just like to share something because I have read in the first post about being treated as a professional and asserting your rights regarding events like this. I have noticed here in our place that photographers are probably the least appreciated people during weddings. Have you guys experienced this before? Here in our place, the make-up artists are treated much better compared to the photographers and videographers.

I have noticed here in our place that photographers are probably the least appreciated people during weddings. Have you guys experienced this before? Here in our place, the make-up artists are treated much better compared to the photographers and videographers.



^ Oh that happens here too. Specially with the couples' parents who have zero idea who Dino Lara and Jason Magbanua is :D:D:D

That happens there too? Woah, I just find it funny when everyone gets included in the thank you speech except the photographers. (Not that I'm a glutton for attention) Hahaha. So I think its much worse here, the folks here doesn't know diddly squat about the art. :Grin::Grin::Grin:

My wife and I include meals in our contract including table and space or area for our gear and assistant. So far, our clients have agreed to this requirement. :-)

This is standard practice and as the term suggests it is not required but practiced nevertheless. Its not if one of the photo/video faints and causes a scene by fainting. :)

The worst reception I experienced was, there was no water! I was fed and was given a glass of softdrinks. But as the reception dragged on and my personal water bottle was empty already, I approached a waiter and asked for water. He simply told me they merely serve what the couple provided for the reception. Since there was no water, he can't give me one.

I was really drained in that instance not by hunger but by thirst! In all other events I've covered me and my crew were always given meals.

It is always good practice to tell the couple before hand how many crew members including yourself will be present during the reception and their respective roles. I've had a client who was so pissed of about her stylist/florist. The guy brought with him over 13 crew members during the reception who really did nothing but just to help clean the decorations and flowers after the wedding. The bride told me they had no qualms of feeding crew members but they should have at least told them beforehand how many are coming. They had to spend extra for these crew members as they had a pretty good guest attendance during their reception.

^ Oh that happens here too. Specially with the couples' parents who have zero idea who Dino Lara and Jason Magbanua is :D:D:D

this cracked me up sir lei hehe :D

I

And I would just like to share something because I have read in the first post about being treated as a professional and asserting your rights regarding events like this. I have noticed here in our place that photographers are probably the least appreciated people during weddings. Have you guys experienced this before? Here in our place, the make-up artists are treated much better compared to the photographers and videographers.

Lawrence if I may, as a professional and especially a wedding photographer you should not expect to be treated special. Respect yes but special no. That right falls to the bride and groom. Now the key as a wedding photographer is to get close and personal with the couple. after all your job is focused on them. Also you have access to them more than anybody else, even before the nuptuals. Im talking about a pre-nup. This is a good opportunity to get to know them. In my experience i have found it quite helpfull and doing my job on the day itself as they become more comfortable with you.

As for the food that should be something stated in your contract. You should never leave that up to chance even in our country where it is common curtesy to take care of everybody attending the event.

Just want to share. Thanks and good luck.:Grin:

Lawrence if I may, as a professional and especially a wedding photographer you should not expect to be treated special. Respect yes but special no. That right falls to the bride and groom. Now the key as a wedding photographer is to get close and personal with the couple. after all your job is focused on them. Also you have access to them more than anybody else, even before the nuptuals. Im talking about a pre-nup. This is a good opportunity to get to know them. In my experience i have found it quite helpfull and doing my job on the day itself as they become more comfortable with you.

As for the food that should be something stated in your contract. You should never leave that up to chance even in our country where it is common curtesy to take care of everybody attending the event.

Just want to share. Thanks and good luck.:Grin:

Thanks sir, Respect was the word I was looking for pala. I meant in my previous post regarding couples who treat photographers like they are lower lifeforms, sorry for the lack of a better term. I dont know if professionals like yourself have experienced it, I just accompany some of the local pro photographers here in our locality on their shoots and this is what I have observed. The attitude that goes like "photographer lang pala yan eh". But thanks for pointing out my mistake of using the word "special" what I meant was "respect". :)

thanks for this thread, I now know what to write in my contract :D

TIMES.. THEY ARE A-CHANGING...

In a recent Toronto Vintage Camera Show and Sale, I picked up, for 3 dollars, a 55 volume complete Photography Course from NEW YORK INSTITUTE OF PHOTOGRAPHY- circa 1950.

One of the volumes that caught my attention first is the one titled BRIDAL PHOTOGRAPHY. As I have stated in another thread, it's a huge fascination for me, as a perpetual student of photography to delve into the minds of photographers and photography educators of old. In this particular book this topic was thoroughly discussed and among others, it said:

" PHOTOGRAPHERS MUST GRACIOUSLY REFUSE ALL OFFERS OF FOOD, DRINKS OR CIGARETTES BECAUSE THEY MAKE YOU RELAX AND MISS SHOTS THAT YOU SHOULD BE TAKING. THE OFFER MAY HAVE BEEN MADE IN GOOD FAITH BUT EXPERIENCED PHOTOGRAPHERS ALWAYS SAY- THANK YOU FOR THE OFFER BUT I DON'T EAT, DRINK OR SMOKE ON THE JOB. YOUR HOSTS WILL RESPECT YOU MORE AND WILL FIND IT EASIER TO PAY THE BILL BECAUSE THEY KNOW THAT YOU WORKED AND DID NOT ENJOY YOURSELF"

Now, that's wisdom worth more than 3 dollars...

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z88/coolfotog/078.jpg (http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z88/coolfotog/078.jpg)

^ Oh that happens here too. Specially with the couples' parents who have zero idea who Dino Lara and Jason Magbanua is :D:D:D

And my name is Manny Villafuerte---- and I pay the bill!

Never had this experience pa naman pero I heard stories from a friend who shot a couple that only gave them sandwiches for dinner. The couple are even demanding more than what they have agreed upon like shooting the whole family after the reception.... with studio lights. I never thought these things happen.

I'm ok with crew meal 'coz I myself is a bit hesitant falling inline with the guests on buffet.


with my experience....... when we have meeting with the couple, we discuss about feeding us also coz its too hard to shoot when ur very hungry.

- some couples have bugdet only for the head count guests
........... the couple will tell us that they ask the kitchen/reception to prepare a sparate food for us, but its only an option if the table guest are already full.

- some couples have extra budget for extra guests
.......... the couple will provide us the table already for all my crew.



..................................

shooting a family picture with studio set-up if it is in the contract, otherwise during the meeting it will be cleared first that the packages covered only for wedding events not a family pictorials (except for group pictorial) or unless you will consider their request.

Can't see why you would refuse requests for family pictures if there are no time constraints. That's golden opportunity to sell more pictures. I'll grab that chance in a hertbeat!

meal or no meal??

------------------------------

i place the meal in im my contract... we always discuss it before signing the contract... :-)

meal is also on our contract.. but we dont require them to feed us the same food the guest have.. but most of the time its the same, there are times that we even have a reserve table, just for the photo video crew..

1 good experience was, the bride and groom insist to pause the program for a while, so that we could eat first.. :D

1 bad experience was, (out of town) during the prep time, the forgot to feed us lunch, it was 12 nn and while the other family, relatives were eating, we were shooting the details, gowns etc of the bride, then so much for the food, there was none left, ceremony at the church was 2 pm, we didnt have time to buy, since we dont know the place, there were no fast foods nearby, we shoot through the ceremony till the end of the reception w/o eating.. :(

I am sorry guys. I simply would not hire a wedding photographer who has food as one of his priorities when WORKING my wedding. What's wrong with putting a couple of choco bars, a banana and a bottle of water in your bag to sustain you-- if you're hypoglycemic? C'mon guys- you're there to work!

^ Learn your lesson and bring stomach fillers always. Better yet, and we've done this a couple of times, we dial 8mcdo.


^ Cynthia, that is fine as long as everything is discussed and agreed upon. Also, choco bars and fruits won't be enough as weddings run for more than 8 hours in a single day. If you've shot a wedding and survived with that, then that's fine but doing that for 2-3 consecutive days professionally, and you'll understand why a meal is important. You also won't want your photographers having shaky hands and getting dizzy. Skill and will power will always be with a good photographer but human physiology cannot be controlled/commanded on.

Most wedding crews are trained to refuse any food unless it is the proper time agreed on by both parties.

Feeding or not feeding your wedding dream team isn't a major factor but don't avoid the topic altogether when meeting with your desired crew. Just tell them upfront that you won't be able to feed them and they should bring along their own meals. Just don't surprise them on the day itself that you don't have anything for them.

-

It's the same with any industry actually. Say you're asked by a company/prospective client for a meeting so you could present / market your ideas/products. If that meeting lasts for more than half a day, the client will 'feel' obliged to give you some snacks (and walang plastikan, meron at merong magsasabi dyan na "ano ba yan hindi man lang tayo pinakain" kapag 8 hours na inabot ang meeting).

I am sorry guys. I simply would not hire a wedding photographer who has food as one of his priorities when WORKING my wedding. What's wrong with putting a couple of choco bars, a banana and a bottle of water in your bag to sustain you-- if you're hypoglycemic? C'mon guys- you're there to work!

priority is different from necessity, as we have experienced it, we cannot do well without food.. we dont require something expensive, rice and 1 ulam would be enuf.. behing every beautiful photo, is a well fed man, lol :D

What about the "human interest photos" that you will miss whilst sitting down and enjoying your meal? I think behind every beautiful photo is a man who has gone there to "work" for that photo and has strategize well. Most wedding photographers I've worked with carry their own food and if offered a meal during the reception, do it in turns- never leaving a single moment undocumented.

What about the "human interest photos" that you will miss whilst sitting down and enjoying your meal? I think behind every beautiful photo is a man who has gone there to "work" for that photo and has strategize well. Most wedding photographers I've worked with carry their own food and if offered a meal during the reception, do it in turns- never leaving a single moment undocumented.

i didn't mention leaving the moment undocumented, and i don't even enjoy the meal, i eat fast, also setting the time of eating, we dont do it at the same time the guest are eating, sometimes we eat after the reception..

mostly weddings are done in the afternoon, so we photographers are already starting aroung 9 or 10 am. then the lunch is important too.. as i said, we have it in our contract, geez, how much is a pc of chicken and a rice from jolibee or mcdo..

^ Learn your lesson and bring stomach fillers always. Better yet, and we've done this a couple of times, we dial 8mcdo.


^ Cynthia, that is fine as long as everything is discussed and agreed upon. Also, choco bars and fruits won't be enough as weddings run for more than 8 hours in a single day. If you've shot a wedding and survived with that, then that's fine but doing that for 2-3 consecutive days professionally, and you'll understand why a meal is important. You also won't want your photographers having shaky hands and getting dizzy. Skill and will power will always be with a good photographer but human physiology cannot be controlled/commanded on.

Most wedding crews are trained to refuse any food unless it is the proper time agreed on by both parties.

Feeding or not feeding your wedding dream team isn't a major factor but don't avoid the topic altogether when meeting with your desired crew. Just tell them upfront that you won't be able to feed them and they should bring along their own meals. Just don't surprise them on the day itself that you don't have anything for them.

-

It's the same with any industry actually. Say you're asked by a company/prospective client for a meeting so you could present / market your ideas/products. If that meeting lasts for more than half a day, the client will 'feel' obliged to give you some snacks (and walang plastikan, meron at merong magsasabi dyan na "ano ba yan hindi man lang tayo pinakain" kapag 8 hours na inabot ang meeting).

The banana and choco bars is a figure of speech and some pros i've worked with carry some fully laden Subway sandwiches (of course without the mustard-it can ruin your whole day) and stuff themselves silly while in their cars going to the formals after the ceremony and to the reception after the formals. I directed a $12,000 job last week in and not one of the 4 photogs sat down during the reception. In contrast, I attended a friend's wedding last year and the father of the bride, visibly animated and irked, spent a good portion of the reception motioning to the videographer (who was enjoying his meal)to shoot certain scenes who he obviously thought were important. It was not a pretty sight.

The banana and choco bars is a figure of speech and some pros i've worked with carry some fully laden Subway sandwiches (of course without the mustard-it can ruin your whole day) and stuff themselves silly while in their cars going to the formals after the ceremony and to the reception after the formals. I directed a $12,000 job last week in and not one of the 4 photogs sat down during the reception. In contrast, I attended a friend's wedding last year and the father of the bride, visibly animated and irked, spent a good portion of the reception motioning to the videographer (who was enjoying his meal)to shoot certain scenes who he obviously thought were important. It was not a pretty sight.

I'd like to hear Pilar Tuason's comment here. I don't think it's accurate to generalize the common practices when you're talking about different cultures. Filipinos are different from Americans and Americans are different from Germans.

I'd like to hear Pilar Tuason's comment here. I don't think it's accurate to generalize the common practices when you're talking about different cultures. Filipinos are different from Americans and Americans are different from Germans.

I agree that there's differences in cultures but i'm talking about work ethics-which is universal. I always want to give my clients more than their money's worth. Remember, in the photo business, you are not closing deals-you're opening relationships.

I agree that there's differences in cultures but i'm talking about work ethics-which is universal. I always want to give my clients more than their money's worth. Remember, in the photo business, you are not closing deals-you're opening relationships.


WE always want to give our clients more than what they pay for. Most Filipino clients treat suppliers like guests. They insist that we eat when everyone else is eating. That's the reason why most photographers do take turns in eating. The original question was "Meal or no Meal" and someone already said that they talk about it during the negotiating process.

WE always want to give our clients more than what they pay for. Most Filipino clients treat suppliers like guests. They insist that we eat when everyone else is eating. That's the reason why most photographers do take turns in eating. The original question was "Meal or no Meal" and someone already said that they talk about it during the negotiating process.

BTW, I'm 100% a Department of Agriculture certified class AAA Filipino. Ready for the slaughter.

BTW, I'm 100% a Department of Agriculture certified class AAA Filipino. Ready for the slaughter.


I'm 100% class CCC Filipino and I treat my clients like Kings and Queens. Even slaves need to eat. Isn't that the original question? Meal or no Meal?:)

I'm 100% class CCC Filipino and I treat my clients like Kings and Queens. Even slaves need to eat. Isn't that the original question? Meal or no Meal?:)

I apologize profusely if i annoyed you with my comments. I don't intend to. I enjoy the free speech here which i suspect is turning into hate speech. I would stop commenting now but tell myself to hold onto my views and not carry a very big chip on my shoulder. thanks.:)

I apologize profusely if i annoyed you with my comments. I don't intend to. I enjoy the free speech here which i suspect is turning into hate speech. I would stop commenting now but tell myself to hold onto my views and not carry a very big chip on my shoulder. thanks.:)


Cynthia, I'm not annoyed by your comments. It's just off the real topic. Work ethics wasn't the topic in question. Work ethics is following or not the agreement you and the client signed. The majority of forum members in DPP are not PRO. The thread is about getting info on how other photogs handle the situation. When the clients says they will feed us, they SHOULD feed us. If they say they won't, we'll bring our own food. There's a reason why EMOTICONS were invented.:)

Cynthia, I'm not annoyed by your comments. It's just off the real topic. Work ethics wasn't the topic in question. Work ethics is following or not the agreement you and the client signed. The majority of forum members in DPP are not PRO. The thread is about getting info on how other photogs handle the situation. When the clients says they will feed us, they SHOULD feed us. If they say they won't, we'll bring our own food. There's a reason why EMOTICONS were invented.:)


I'm sorry but no poster after my initial comment said that i was off-topic. Mr. Sarmiento was very professional in his replies despite us having differing views. I could sense a pro when i hear one!

Echoing Mr. Villafuerte's previous posts about delving into the minds of the photographers of the 50's, that thinking, although considered passe in some circles are still very much in place in many pro wedding photographers' collective minds. between two competing photographers, (one that insists that the matter of food be in the contract and one who does not really make a big deal out of it because he wants to really work and not miss any potentially important, not to mention saleable shot)- Guess who gets the job. And that is the difference between CULTURE and WORK ETHICS that i was trying to point out. If you want to succeed in this world, PERCEPTION, Rolly is what counts. PERCEPTION.

...do it in turns- never leaving a single moment undocumented.

I think this should be a given and most reliable wedding crews practice this - taking turns if one needs to eat - provided or not. However, I don't think shooting practices is the topic of this thread. Although it may be a good topic to start - shooting methods, practices, ethics, survival techniques etc.

WE always want to give our clients more than what they pay for. Most Filipino clients treat suppliers like guests. They insist that we eat when everyone else is eating. That's the reason why most photographers do take turns in eating. The original question was "Meal or no Meal" and someone already said that they talk about it during the negotiating process.

I think the other poster still doesn't get this or knows the intricacies of how local (Philippine based) weddings (or even events) are being done.

The inclusion and discussion of meals is NOT A BIG DEAL here in the Philippines. Maybe it is over there where they can have $12,000 jobs (compared here where photo coverages can start for as low as $200). I'm quite amused when a big fuss is made out of it and to corelate it with work ethics, perception, etc.

The big deal, as Lei have mentioned, is on when or how you eat it.

For my personal experience, during our wedding (we hired Nelwin Uy back then) we agreed upon giving a set meal to the crew during dinner. As to how or when they eat it, it's up to them as I know that they are professional enough to decide on this. Still, on the day itself, we provided them snacks & lunch (when you're shooting for almost 12 hours this is quite vital)... and even scrapped the set meal and asked them to eat as guests as well. This is not just for the photographers, but for all the suppliers from the make-up artists, videographers, the projector guy, etc.

Even if you take a peek at the discussions in W@W (the local wedding forum & mailing list), nobody is making a big deal about this or ranting about this. Nobody's is saying "Wow, this photographer doesn't request for meals", "Kapal naman ng mukha nito, nag request for a meal". What matters most here in the Philippines is the final output and the attitude of the supplier.

Cultural differences can also play a big deal at times. We know one manager and florist who kept refusing food and drinks offered by the bride that the bride at the later part of the day finally took offense and voiced it out to him.

I've seen a post here that says always refuse a meal offered but that simply won't work here. Again, at least with the photographers & videographers we've teamed up with, all were trained to refuse meals or take turns in eating. BUT when you're offered twice or thrice a meal/snack, I'd definitely suggest to train crews to find a way to accept it without looking like patay gutoms.

All of my clients, I mean all my contracted clients, would ask me how many are we during the day coverage. They said that, with meals not provided in my contract, they assume that it is their responsibility to give us meals. During the day itself, we usually shoot shoot shoot until asked by the couple to take our meal. That way, we always make it a point that there is this "shifting" meaning 50% of us would take meal while the 50% of the crew will continue to shoot video and photo so as not to miss "opportunities". Sometimes while taking the quick meal, we usually stop to still take pictures and videos.

Lei is right, cultural differencs can also play a big deal in this arrangements. Usually SOME foreigners and SOME upscale clients. I usually encounter this when their coordinator are the once that contact us.

Covering an event that takes more than 4 hours (including set-up time - 'coz I also handle video), I include, in the contract, meals as being taken cared-of by our client(s)...not necessarily the same food as the guests. Anything solid to tide us over will do. But we always make sure that our coverage never stops. We take turns in filling up our tummies.

This is how I argue my way to the client. In order for us to deliver the best quality service non-stop, our end-product relies heavily on eye-mind-finger coordination. That cannot be made possible on a grumbling tummy 'coz that's gonna produce shaky hands and fingers from being cross-eyed and brain-wilted - out of sheer hunger and thirst.

I think that is a NO-BRAINER, no?

Even batteries need recharging...NO-BRAINER, no?

Cultural differences can also play a big deal at times. We know one manager and florist who kept refusing food and drinks offered by the bride that the bride at the later part of the day finally took offense and voiced it out to him.

I've seen a post here that says always refuse a meal offered but that simply won't work here. Again, at least with the photographers & videographers we've teamed up with, all were trained to refuse meals or take turns in eating. BUT when you're offered twice or thrice a meal/snack, I'd definitely suggest to train crews to find a way to accept it without looking like patay gutoms.



I'm assuming you are reffering to my post-which is not neccesarily my own view of the matter. I was merely sharing what I read in a New York Institute of Photography Course which was written in 1950- before most, if not all of of us were born. I can't say that they are entirely wrong as that was the prevailing thinking of that day as your's and many other posters' are the prevailing thinking in the Philippines today. I guess for me and I presume Ms Cenos as well, this is a classic case of "When in Rome do what the Romans do". One must assimilate.

When I did my first wedding here, the bride-to-be stared at me in utter disbelief with that "are you kidding me? expression, ready to fire me that same second. I was merely taking pictures of her shoes on her bed as is commonly practiced there. She thought it was the tackiest thing she's ever seen and surely a picture of her shoes, in her mind, did not merit a page in her wedding album or a snippet on her video. And yet, the next wedding I did (Filipino), the mother insisted that i took a picture of her daughter's shoes. There's your cultural differences.

Not taking up the cudgels for Ms Cenos. I can assure you that she has a total grasp of Filipino wedding customs or the "intricacies" of it, as one poster averred. As a matter of fact and and course, she has applied them and continues to apply them in many North American weddings that she has done and with incredible success. She is more filipino than many Filipinos in the Philippines that i know and she still prefaces her sentences with "ALA EH" I knowI have no right and she will kill me for doing this but I just want to set the record straight. My company has dealt with Ms. Cenos company in more than one occassion and I can tell you that we can learn a thing or two from her. Aside from being a respected photographer/lecturer, she is also an incredibly talented film maker/cinematographer ( a Brooks Institute grad) and has vast experience in brokering, selling and directing upscale weddings in many parts of North America. She is one cool operator but runs a very tight ship that produces amazing results. Again, I admire her for incorporating Filipino ideas in her ventures here which really saddens me when some "nationalistic" members of this forum shoot off biting, juvenile comments against the "Filipino-ness" of their compatriots mainly because they happento live and slave for a living here. It's more of a case of Filipinos being great "assimilators" which is often mistaken for great imitators. The truth of the matter is Filipinos willingly and readily adapt to any given place and situation and that garners respect from your host nation. And isn't that the reason why among many ethnic groups, filipinos are the least sufferrers of racism and prejudice? And to the poster before you, it really is not the $200 wedding versus the $12,000 wedding that is being pointed out. I'ts how to turn that $200 wedding maybe into a $12,000 wedding by offering your customers something that they haven't experienced before. UPSELL is the word and Ms Cenos is the master in upselling. And we are not making a federal case out of this either. We're merely having some healthy exchange of ideas. No ranting.

Perception? I remember the little story that Ms. Cenos husband told me. When they first started their own little wedding business, they leased a tiny space in an industrial area which remained empty save for two SONY TV boxes that served as their office desks, a phone and an old IBM Selectric typewriter. With the small business loan that they obtained from a government program, they purchased two used Mercedes Benz and wasted no time pounding the pavement calling on prospective clients in the carriage trade (aka wealthy clients). How many photographers do you see driving a mercedes? Impressive, you say. Clients PERCEIVED them as successful and what do you know- "success" begets success. Business started pouring in and the rest, as they say is history.

Ok. Let's move on with it already then.