I'm taking off from the thread on Standardization of Phtography rates..

I dont know if this is the appropriate venue for this..Can we ask help from the pros to give us the rough standard rates..like for food?, for product? portraits?..

This forum could be the start for following a guide to standardizing the rates..All feedback, comments and views are certainly most welcome..
Thanks and more power to all..:)

The rate guide for photography will be a good help for both upcoming and established professionals. It'll level the playing field, so to speak, and bracket pricing fairly to those who can offer more professional as compared to 'amateur' services.

I wish I could give you an answer. The problem is, the rates are in such disarray now that's why we are working towards a rate guide. Asking different pro photographers will get you varying answers. Many pros are also unsure about how to charge nowadays. Many have been lamenting that rates have not gone up since about 8 years ago, what's worse is that some clients are even paying less.
Just to give you an idea, most nights of the week, I get a number of messages through YM wherein fellow pros seek advice on how they should charge for a particular project. Although most of us would have a figure we are thinking of charging, the situation has gotten so unpredictable that it becomes wise to survey the landscape before coming up with a pricing.
There are some that have resorted to quoting per day/per half day rate just to preserve their per layout rate. Considering the economic climate, this becomes a more practical alternative for clients.

Anyway, to give you an idea. 8 years ago. Film days. The pros involved in advertising came up with a base rate. P3300 for one layout, dropout ,if using P35mm film, P4400 for one layout, dropout, if using medium format. And P5500 for one layout, dropout, if using large format. Of course, other factors that come into play changes the costing.

I'd be afraid to list rates here yet until we are able to actually survey and come up with averages of existing pricings by photographers. In the mean time, if you wish, just send me personal message or email if you want to inquire regarding specific pricing and I will try to share with you what I know.

Thanks sir louie,
Ill PM after this, i understand that we really have to survey first, even in other professions there is also a big discrepancy in the rates, there should really be a governing body to regulate such an industry..

In the meantime to share with other readers, can we have a description of the terms you mentioned? Maybe we can start by roughly standardizing the scope of works before
Like whats layout? dropout? whats basically included? Of course when the client has special requests, it would be another negotiation.

Hope im not too demanding, but when i see the goal of standardization, i thnik its doable and what better time than to start something albeit slowly and be able to pass on this legacy and help ourselves and our colleagues on the business side of photography..

thanks sir and i support you on this..

Sir louie,
I tried to PM you just now but your Inbox is now full..:) thanks

Hi Everyone,

First of all, great mag! It's great to finally see a good photography magazine at a very good price hit my nearest bookstore with a lot more articles than ads. :)

From experience and from asking senior photographers before, I know that for corporate studio shoots (product or person), it's around P3k-4k per shot selected, or P10k for a whole day's worth of shoots depending on the client's budget. For events and weddings, the pro fee is around P3500 for a half day shoot, and P5k for a whole day's.

I'd definitely like to compare notes on this one, since making honest money should go hand in hand with being good to the industry. :)

would like to know how much can a photographer charge for food photography. Its for a restaurant. :) How much is the usual rate of a food stylist?

would like to know how much can a photographer charge for food photography. Its for a restaurant. :) How much is the usual rate of a food stylist?

Depends on who you get. The really good stylists charge more than the amateur photogs. There are stylists who charge 6k++ per scoop of ice cream.

Depends on who you get. The really good stylists charge more than the amateur photogs. There are stylists who charge 6k++ per scoop of ice cream.

My golly gee! :D I'm in the wrong business... Better do styling as well.:)

Its really a problem when there are no standard rates, i also asked a senior collegue how he charged for food..his answer was 3t to 5t per plate, he was not specific how many shots per plate..he continued if you want you can charge per day about 20t to 25t
Another scenario is if youre a retainer, meaning you do almost all the food pics for the client you can charge 1.5t to 2t per plate..

But then even in architecture, where there are already standard rates, due to competition, budget and friendships the rates are not followed..:)

Thanks for the info. I also asked a pro and he said for each food set-up (or layout) he charges: P 4,000 per layout - for 5 layouts and below. The stylist cost P400/hr. The half day rate is P15T.

Thanks for the info. I also asked a pro and he said for each food set-up (or layout) he charges: P 4,000 per layout - for 5 layouts and below. The stylist cost P400/hr. The half day rate is P15T.


Wow, who is that stylist... super cheap... the cheapest i've encountered is P1,500 per layout... there are some i know P5000 per dish

Hi Everyone,


From experience and from asking senior photographers before, I know that for corporate studio shoots (product or person), it's around P3k-4k per shot selected, or P10k for a whole day's worth of shoots depending on the client's budget.
I'd definitely like to compare notes on this one, since making honest money should go hand in hand with being good to the industry. :)

P10k for a whole day is super cheap... for beginners i think at least P15k... some pros charge around P25-30k a day.. Others even much higher.
If you compare the P3-4k per layout with "or 10k for a whole day's worth" there's a large discrepancy there... its like 3 layouts only.... but you can actually shoot as much as 30 layouts in a day... at that rate its like a little over P300 per layout.

hi, just want to share about photography rates, it really a problem since we dont have any guidelines regarding rates but i think we can make a pricing and if everybody is getting your services then your rate is low.

We've been meeting already regarding the rate guide and there are still so many issue to tackle. Like one thing that is difficult is the realization that sometimes some sort of socialized pricing maybe necessary. For example: you would most likely charge a very different rate shooting for the menu of a single restaurant compared to shooting the menu for a large fastfood chain. So, many photographers end up tackling that problem... do we have different sets of rates depending on the clients? It does become a problem too if one client that you charge higher finds out that you charge lower for another client.

Like what I mentioned earlier na some pros charge as low as P25k-30k a day, they might charge that for smaller companies... but that rate would be devastatingly cheap if it was for an ad agency.

I wish I could give you an answer. The problem is, the rates are in such disarray now that's why we are working towards a rate guide. Asking different pro photographers will get you varying answers. Many pros are also unsure about how to charge nowadays. Many have been lamenting that rates have not gone up since about 8 years ago, what's worse is that some clients are even paying less.
Just to give you an idea, most nights of the week, I get a number of messages through YM wherein fellow pros seek advice on how they should charge for a particular project. Although most of us would have a figure we are thinking of charging, the situation has gotten so unpredictable that it becomes wise to survey the landscape before coming up with a pricing.
There are some that have resorted to quoting per day/per half day rate just to preserve their per layout rate. Considering the economic climate, this becomes a more practical alternative for clients.

Anyway, to give you an idea. 8 years ago. Film days. The pros involved in advertising came up with a base rate. P3300 for one layout, dropout ,if using P35mm film, P4400 for one layout, dropout, if using medium format. And P5500 for one layout, dropout, if using large format. Of course, other factors that come into play changes the costing.

I'd be afraid to list rates here yet until we are able to actually survey and come up with averages of existing pricings by photographers. In the mean time, if you wish, just send me personal message or email if you want to inquire regarding specific pricing and I will try to share with you what I know.


sorry sir, im new in this field pero what do you mean by layout or dropout?
thanks

^^ Was wondering about the same issue hehe. What's layout/dropout?

Hehe was also about to ask the same question. What's a layout and a dropout? I've read somewhere that some photogs charge 5K for three layouts for models' setcards.

a "drop out" is simply shooting something on plain background (white/chroma/etc etc) then that something will be compose/superimposed elsewhere.. ie: products/models/clothings in a catalog

a "layout" is roughly an image that is styled with a concept. ie: mom and dad carrying a baby in front of their newly acquired home. with green green grass and blue blue sky..

something new for my vocabulary... thanks Kai...

Thanks Kai! So as I understand it, a lay-out can also be made of composited images right? Or just a single shot?

I think there is a need to prepare a glossary of terms for use in the business of photography. We need to define the terms that we use. For example, I have avoided using the word "layout" because advertising agencies and clients also use the word layout but differently. Photographers think of layouts as one set up or situation to shoot, whereas clients could be referring to the page, which incidentally could contain several photos/images. So if we quoted an x amount for each "layout" (if we meant per photo) - and if their layout contained say, 10 photos, we could be very misunderstood. Even when we say one "set up," nowadays, many clients think a set up includes all the possible variations because they think of one set up as being one group of elements to be photographed, no matter if they ask you to shoot from the left, from the right, top angle, low angle, change lighting treatment etc. We need to define the terms that we use, and photographers must learn to agree on some standard terms.

Thank you ma'am harvey. I think aside from the rate guide, we might also want create a list of terminologies so those of us who are just starting out can easily understand and relate to the business side of photography. :)

Without a standard rate guide, I hope photography as a profession remains lucrative especially to those who derive a living from it. With the advent of digital imaging and post-processing software, the scuffle on how much to charge, for what type of set-up, and for how long now remains in limbo. In my humble opinion (Imho), photographers nowadays should be equally capable graphic artists in image manipulation software to be at par with today's perceived standard, much the same way as graphic artists are slowly but surely taking up the camera on one hand and the pen/stylus/mouse/tablet in the other. Again, imho, we must be able to live by the edict of Darwin's evolution in order to survive. Gone are the glory days of yesteryear and we can only wait for the cycle to turn on the upside. Changes are surely going to happen, there's no doubting that, and until we learn to accept those and make the necessary modifications, we would be left behind. In the meantime, I look forward to better days. Happy clickin'! :)

at this point of time, it is still confusing on my part. that's why i am still not accepting any offers. first, i feel that im not yet prepared. second, i only own a point & shoot. third, i don't know how to quote myself. need to wait even though i've been receving a quite handful of photo shoot offers.

It's the same with me. Sadly, I've seen opportunities for paid shoots pass me by simply because I don't have any idea what price to quote.

I'm having difficulty marketing myself also because I don't have any ballpark rates to offer a potential client. I'm in limbo.

my rate is:


free food and free transpo


I will work for food..hehehe..

my rate is:


free food and free transpo


I will work for food..hehehe..

:D that really made me laugh.. thank goodness for people who have a good sense of humor.

I for one feel blessed that all these are happening at about the time i decided to go full-time into photography. I can only imagine how much more difficult it was for the industry's precursors, having to go on all by themselves, unlike now when technology allows us to share at the speed of thought

mabuhay!

Is it proper to invoke an extra fee on top of the normal photo services? I charged my first (and was the last) client for Art Direction fee and gladly they never bother to ask what the heck it was. It's a good thing though that the shoot/ output went well.

short of encountering these terms as we read on or as we work .. i think a glossary of terms for referencing is a laudible idea

big question before asking for rate is,

does anybody still need a photographer?

for example, a good digital camera can be purchased for a little over 15k pesos, and information about taking good photos are everywhere on the internet..

if for example i need a photographer, i will probably contact first a list of my friends, classmates etc who could do that. I for one do that to my friends. and i do it for free. I get fun, friendship (oh so priceless), free food, free transpo..

so where is photography heading? i dont think just owning a camera and knowing how to take photos means you can be lucrative in this career. You also need to know people skills, you must not be a photographer but a make-up artist, hairstylist, a director, a leader , chef, interior designer, etc..etc..

just being a photographer (camera owner with knowledge on how to use it) is nothing.

Anybody can take pictures, but not everybody is a photographer. To earn the title "photographer," one must have talent and skills, and for professional photographers, the right equipment, facilities and services. Sure, anybody can take a photo of a burger or pizza, but it takes a photographer to make it come alive, make it appetizing enough so that you would want to order one. I'm sure you can survey the photos in the marketplace and tell which ones were taken by a picture-taker, and which ones were done by real photographers.

I'm not saying one can't move from being a picture-taker to being a photographer. Of course, this can happen, and it is happening all the time. But there is a path to take, and it requires a lot of hard work to know and master equipment, learn the craft, hone the talent, train the eye, be an expert at photography.

An advertising photographers needs to be familiar with the works of the other people he works with - foodstylist, fashionstylist, hair and make-up artist - but he does not have to be one of them if he does not want to. We all should choose what we are passionate about because that is the first step towards success.

Being a good photographer and being a successful photographer (business-wise) require two different sets of knowledge. Do study the business of photography if you wish to earn, and earn well, from photography. It is not enough that you are a great photographer.

An advertising photographers needs to be familiar with the works of the other people he works with - foodstylist, fashionstylist, hair and make-up artist - but he does not have to be one of them if he does not want to. We all should choose what we are passionate about because that is the first step towards success.

Being a good photographer and being a successful photographer (business-wise) require two different sets of knowledge. Do study the business of photography if you wish to earn, and earn well, from photography. It is not enough that you are a great photographer.

Very well said statements ma'am, and very inspiring too!

Anybody can take pictures, but not everybody is a photographer. To earn the title "photographer," one must have talent and skills, and for professional photographers, the right equipment, facilities and services. Sure, anybody can take a photo of a burger or pizza, but it takes a photographer to make it come alive, make it appetizing enough so that you would want to order one. I'm sure you can survey the photos in the marketplace and tell which ones were taken by a picture-taker, and which ones were done by real photographers.

I'm not saying one can't move from being a picture-taker to being a photographer. Of course, this can happen, and it is happening all the time. But there is a path to take, and it requires a lot of hard work to know and master equipment, learn the craft, hone the talent, train the eye, be an expert at photography.

one only needs a good, decent equipment with good light make good photos. Photography is all about light. In my profession as a photographer, I only use a cheap digital point and shoot camera. And by that I dont have a need to charge as much. Most of the time I do it for FREE.

buying expensive equipment is not a necessity, and charging excessively high rates for using a camera and pressing some buttons, are somewhat unusual.

you let an average person use your 50,000 peso DSLR camera setup and that person will take photos as good as how you take it. The skill factor in taking photographs is very minimal. So a photographer should not expect a high rate for a very simple work done. As anybody can do it.

Word of advice: If you intend to earn money from photography, without the intention of enjoying it, then you are better off using that time to work as service crew in a fastfood chain. You will earn more.

Photography is basically just a hobby, not should be considered as a means to provide for your future or feed your family.

Photography is basically just a hobby, not should be considered as a means to provide for your future or feed your family.

I do not agree! Please be sensitive enough to understand that there are indeed Professional Photographers who earns a living and puts food on the family's plates through this profession especially in this forum. Photography can either be a profession and a hobby. I know people who live comfortable and some affluent lives becuase of this profession. If you want your photography to be just a hobby, then so be it. But please don't take it against the professional photographers if they treaded a different path. :)

Word of advice: If you intend to earn money from photography, without the intention of enjoying it, then you are better off using that time to work as service crew in a fastfood chain. You will earn more.

Photography is basically just a hobby, not should be considered as a means to provide for your future or feed your family.

my friend who's the area manager of a cable tv company here in davao is missing half his work (and is ready to quit before he gets fired) because of photography. his reason, he earns more. i wonder if he'd miss the same time off his work being a sevice crew of our local mcdo. hmmm... ;)

one only needs a good, decent equipment with good light make good photos. Photography is all about light. In my profession as a photographer, I only use a cheap digital point and shoot camera. And by that I dont have a need to charge as much. Most of the time I do it for FREE.

buying expensive equipment is not a necessity, and charging excessively high rates for using a camera and pressing some buttons, are somewhat unusual.

you let an average person use your 50,000 peso DSLR camera setup and that person will take photos as good as how you take it. The skill factor in taking photographs is very minimal. So a photographer should not expect a high rate for a very simple work done. As anybody can do it.

Word of advice: If you intend to earn money from photography, without the intention of enjoying it, then you are better off using that time to work as service crew in a fastfood chain. You will earn more.

Photography is basically just a hobby, not should be considered as a means to provide for your future or feed your family.

May I invite you to come to our studio? Maybe by meeting photographers who continue to enjoy this profession yet able to (more than) feed their families and provide for their future, you can appreciate why people like us are in professional photography.

As for your other points, allow me to share these thoughts with you:
1. I agree that if you don't enjoy photography, then you should look for something else that you can enjoy. In fact, that's true for any profession. You will be swimming against the current - which can be very tiring - if you hated your job. If you can't switch jobs, then find something in your present job that you can enjoy or find challenging and worthwhile.
2. As for equipment, we have invested in expensive equipment, not because they are expensive, but because they help us achieve what we what to achieve. Same is true with studio facilities. We do study very carefully what equipment to purchase, and like to always remember a banker-friend's advise to "be on the leading, not the bleeding side of technology."
3. Although we have expensive equipment, that is not the main reason for our "high" charges. There are many components in pricing. Our clients are not being charged for the high cost of our equipment, but for our ability and committed efforts to master them so we can produce the images that they need and want. That means, they are paying for the time we spend learning them, experimenting with them, working with them. They're also paying for our dependability, service, fast turn-around etc. (I said etc because I don't want to blow our own horn here).
4. To say that all you need is an "average" (quote marks mine) person to use a 50,000 peso DSLR and he can shoot as well as any photographer is a very sweeping but unkind generalization. Sure, today's digital cameras have democratized photography, making it easier to learn photography, but the field is not yet even, and professional photographers can still be distinguised from non-pros. You can still see the difference between a picture-taker and a picture-maker. Also, photography is indeed about light, but a photographer (as opposed to a picture taker) knows how to romance that light, if available, or how to set up his lights, if he is working in the studio. Maybe you would place me as sub-average because I know about photography - it's my business as a manager and photographer's rep to know - but I am not a photographer, and cannot make images as well as our photographers, even if you handed me their P50,000 (?) cameras.
5. As for your final statement that "photography is basically a hobby, and should not be considered as a means to provide for your future or feed your family," let me just say that I'm glad I did not hear or believe this 33 years ago when John and I started our photography business. It has done more than put food on our table, and again, I would like to invite you to come and check us out. We are living proof that photography can be considered as a means to provide for your future, but only if you are willing to work hard, study, hone your craft, develop your talent, make sacrifices, dream, take risks, learn the business of photography, sell, market, spend long hours working, dedicate yourself to your chosen profession etc., as you would any profession that you want to excel in.

I hope I didn't overreact to your post. Were you serious about what you wrote?:)

Huh! Way to go maam Harvey!
@Mike - Maam Harvey and Sir John Chua are living testament that if you are really good in this profession you'll earn more than enough for your family's food. I suggest you visit their studio......caution though.....you might drool over with their equipment.:Grin:

Taken from this thread (http://www.pinoyphotography.org/forum/index.php?topic=27.435)

http://static.flickr.com/69/177390115_95bc6399ba_b_d.jpg

@ Mike, I suggest you also look at the portfolio of Mr. John Chua. Like them, photography is now giving me more income and joy than my previous life. It's not about getting more money from a hobby but doing best what you love most. They say that in order to be successful in everything we do, we should have the passion for it so that it becomes natural for us. Working at a Food Chain can give you more money if you own the business. It is also an advocacy for Mr. Chua to return back what this profession has done for him, his family, peers and other photographers. I would also like to invite you to visit Hidalgo now and see the developments there. I think there is an activity every 1st Saturday of the month for all photographers whether you are a pro or hobbyist. Let us respect one another, photographers are not only professionals but also artists.

To answer you question: There is a need for photographers and the demand is growing. Just look at the statistics of weddings. There is also a difference between a photographer and a digital camera owner. A Php 50k Digital SLR is indeed different from a point and shoot camera. Want to try my cameras? I have both and you can see the difference. Aside from the things you mentioned, a photographer in order to succeed in business should also know financial management, strategic marketing, customer relationship management and after-sales service. There are also pros that have post-graduate and doctorate's degree so it would be unfair to say that being a photographer is nothing. Even the richest man in the country decided to be a photographer aside from running his real estate empire. Peace be with you.

if photography pays as much as what you people claim then i will tell the tricycle drivers at our place to sell their tricycles and go into photography..

if that is true you will not see photographers virtually begging for photos in Luneta..

is a no brainer profession.

if photography pays as much as what you people claim then i will tell the tricycle drivers at our place to sell their tricycles and go into photography..

if that is true you will not see photographers virtually begging for photos in Luneta..

is a no brainer profession.

May I inquire what you do, professionally? I think you're just baiting for a debate. :Grin:

Don't feed the trolls :Sick:

if photography pays as much as what you people claim then i will tell the tricycle drivers at our place to sell their tricycles and go into photography..


good move! a district in our place already did that, the ex-tricycle drivers are quite happy now, living good lives and all. i believe some are starting to sell their magic sings and videoke boxes for a pc and a copy of CS2.

:Scared:

good move! a district in our place already did that, the ex-tricycle drivers are quite happy now, living good lives and all. i believe some are starting to sell their magic sings and videoke boxes for a pc and a copy of CS2.

:Scared:

and most probably they will end up like the photographers i see in Luneta in front of Rizal monument peddling photos under the heat of the sun..

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a photographer even in weddings is not hired to take excellent photos per se..
Not because you carry 2-60k DSLR, with 60k lens, tripods, monopods, lights etc etc.. that makes you eligible to do wedding photography, no, no.

You could carry a cheap film SLR (or even a decent point and shoot) and dress decently and you will pass as a wedding photographer.


A photographer merely fills up one of the ceremonial roles in a wedding , just the same as ring bearers, flower girl, best man, etc..

Most amateurs just over exaggerate it, and spend more.

They taught the they will earn lots of money and provide for their family by merely looking in a small hole and pressing buttons. Anybody can do that. And then complain that they were not paid high enough to cover up their unsensible purchases.
--------

big question before asking for rate is,

does anybody still need a photographer?

for example, a good digital camera can be purchased for a little over 15k pesos, and information about taking good photos are everywhere on the internet..

if for example i need a photographer, i will probably contact first a list of my friends, classmates etc who could do that. I for one do that to my friends. and i do it for free. I get fun, friendship (oh so priceless), free food, free transpo..

so where is photography heading? i dont think just owning a camera and knowing how to take photos means you can be lucrative in this career. You also need to know people skills, you must not be a photographer but a make-up artist, hairstylist, a director, a leader , chef, interior designer, etc..etc..

just being a photographer (camera owner with knowledge on how to use it) is nothing.

different strokes for different folks...

i don't think you thought this through... it sure looks like you're very short-sighted to me... i do know for a fact that most businesses start off with having their friends as clients... that's what i'm doing now...

hopefully i'll do well in this business someday :) ... but for now, i really like what i'm doing... the plus is i'm discovering a side of me i didn't know was there before... i'll just keep praying i do all the right things to keep myself afloat ...

wooo hooo

if photography pays as much as what you people claim then i will tell the tricycle drivers at our place to sell their tricycles and go into photography..

if that is true you will not see photographers virtually begging for photos in Luneta..

is a no brainer profession.

Those photographers in Luneta, and even those at the Manila Zoo, they're hardworking people trying to earn a decent living. To us, they're fellow photographers, and we respect them.

When we started, we were taking photos of cars involved in accidents, for insurance claims. We didn't know enough to do more sophisticated photo jobs, and we did not have the right equipment. We charged (in 1973) I think P15.00 for 2 or 3 pcs. 5x7 B&W prints. John would always say he was the best car accident photographer. (He could make the dents look bigger) :Grin: Now we shoot new model cars in our studio, and I think he has earned the right to think of himself and G-nie (a former client who quit her job as an art director to learn photography with John) as the best car photographers in the country. :Grin: Sorry for "pagbubuhat ng sariling bangko."

Maybe if we had known somebody in Luneta or the Manila Zoo, we might have started there, and maybe we would now be, not advertising photographers, but photographers with National Geographic. :Thinking:

You know, it might not be a bad idea to teach tricycle drivers some photography skills. After all, John just encouraged the son of a vendor from R. Hidalgo to attend photography classes in Intramuros. John talks about him, and tells me how excited that boy is to be in that class. There's a sparkle of hope in his eyes. That's enough to make us feel good.

Maybe all our less fortunate kababayans need is a little encouragement, and a helping hand - the way we were unselfishly encouraged by Danny Feliciano, who was an established advertising and architectural photographer in the 70's, when we were just starting.

Thanks for this opportunity for me to publicly thank Danny.

Mike, the invitation still stands. We can introduce you to photographers other than ourselves who started with nothing, and who are now proud to be photographers.

@Mike,

Sounds to me you are just a picture taker but will never be a picture maker.

Mike

if photography pays as much as what you people claim then i will tell the tricycle drivers at our place to sell their tricycles and go into photography..

if that is true you will not see photographers virtually begging for photos in Luneta..

is a no brainer profession.
Mike, I think you don't even belong to this forum as you don't respect the craft and the people who pursue this craft.

and most probably they will end up like the photographers i see in Luneta in front of Rizal monument peddling photos under the heat of the sun..

--------------------------------------------------------------



--------

What's wrong about that??

a photographer even in weddings is not hired to take excellent photos per se..
--------
-- why in the first place they were hired by the couple, because the couple believed and probably saw the good portfolio of the photographer. That is why the photographer is hired so that the photographer can take excellent pictures of the them


Not because you carry 2-60k DSLR, with 60k lens, tripods, monopods, lights etc etc.. that makes you eligible to do wedding photography, no, no.
--------

-- they carry it because the photographer believe he has a use for it, not just for showing off. Well, if that setup can produce the best shots then so be it. a DSLR+a good less picture output is soooooo so far as compared to a decent point and shoot. I started with P&S so I know what I'm talking about.

Fellow Photographers,

I think Mike is just looking for attention. This debate will never end as to himself, he is always right. You cannot reason with a person like that. Sabi nga ng asawa ko kapag nagda-drive ako at may biglang sumingit at gusto kong habulin para gantihan, "Pabayaan mo na yan, baka naghahanap lang ng atensyon yan eh... baka idamay ka pa nyan sa aksidente."

I'd recommend we ignore this guy. Tataas lang ang ating alta-presyon.

Just my thoughts.

Marco

@ Mike Punzalan,

I don't know what the heck is your problem with photographers. Do you know what you are saying? Wedding Photographers work an average of 10 to 12 hours in a photoshoot. They also do post production work after the shoot. What is your profession? Are you one of those trying to put us down? I sense so much hatred in you. WPPP Members need an average of 5 years experience before they can even be considered a regular member and there are certain requirements from WPPI and PPA. I requested you to respect our profession, if you want a debate, this is not the right forum. I agree with Marco, perhaps this is just a case of Attention Deficiency Syndrome and the right cure is to ignore it.

Because anybody can take good photos. Its a no brainer profession.

It is probably one of the most unrespected profession here in the Philippines (Common people dont even understand why its even called a profession at all).

And even in the USA, it is regarded as one of the most grossly 'overpaid' profession not deserving fees like that.

Dealing with photographers who ask for high fees are like getting the blame for their excessively riduculous purchases of equipments that these photographers make.

These same photographers will tell their clients that they have this 50k peso camera, this 70k peso lens, this 10k peso lighting and so on, so they deserve to be paid high.

Be fair guys. I do wedding photography and I dont rip-off my clients the way you guys do. Lets not make this profession looking bad.

Nobody trusts photographers who carry large lens and cameras anymore because of what you guys do.

These are the typical complains that I have been hearing from clients.

Good thing I do wedding photography with only a cheap point and shoot, but for some reasons my clients are happy with the output. Your camera does not make you a professional, but its your ATTITUDE.

Hope I did not offend anyone.

Because anybody can take good photos. Its a no brainer profession.

Yes it's a no brainer for good photos. But if you want the best photos, there's a lot of work to do. Maybe you can share your shots with your s3is.


It is probably one of the most unrespected profession here in the Philippines (Common people dont even understand why its even called a profession at all).

Be careful with your statements. Photographers deserve some respect you know.



Good thing I do wedding photography with only a cheap point and shoot, but for some reasons my clients are happy with the output. Your camera does not make you a professional, but its your ATTITUDE.
How much do you charge? Php 5k with album? Do you do prints for your clients?

@Mike Punzalan

You should be mindful of your words. Considering this is a digital photography forum where top photographers are members, posting such things is outright disrespectful.

And attitude alone won't make you a professional, there is still talent and experience.

@Marco_Ingco

I'd recommend we ignore this guy. Tataas lang ang ating alta-presyon.
Maybe the best course of action. He reminds me of this guy alphares at a popular pinoy tipid trading site who's been proven time and again outright wrong about digital cameras and photography. He won't back-out of a discussion even when he's already been proven wrong and afterwhich he'll resort to personal retorts intead. :Sick:

Don't feed the trolls :Sick:

Right on, Mitz. I think this is the best advice to take about Mike.

And even in the USA, it is regarded as one of the most grossly 'overpaid' profession not deserving fees like that.


I may agree with you that "Wedding Photographers" is one of the most overpaid jobs in the US (http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?guid=%7B954AA053%2DF953%2D43F3%2DBBC8%2 D63D351A3BF2A%7D&siteid=google&dist=google). However, as Bill Coleman, senior vice president of compensation for Salary.com, says,

"A lot of people are overpaid because there are certain things consumers just don't want screwed up. You wouldn't want to board a plane flown by a second-rate pilot or hire a cheap wedding photographer to record an event you hope happens once in your lifetime. With pro athletes, one owner is willing to pay big money for a star player and then all the other players want to keep up with the Joneses. The art with CEO pay is making sure your CEO is above the median -- and you see where that goes."

There, at least I agreed with you... but as you see, there's a justification for it.

Marco

Because anybody can take good photos. Its a no brainer profession.

Hope I did not offend anyone.

I'm sorry Mike but I think you did.

But I'll let my relatives know there is a certain Mike Punzalan who will take wedding photos for a clubhouse sandwich.

I'm sorry Mike but I think you did.

But I'll let my relatives know there is a certain Mike Punzalan who will take wedding photos for a clubhouse sandwich.

:D :D I like this Tammy! :D :D

:D :D I like this Tammy! :D :D

It's really unfair to say that photography is a no brainer profession. It is a very hasty generalization and it did offend a lot of people. Dude where's your brain.

I mean even my mentor who is a Pulitzer prize nominee and whose photo was a cover for TIME Magazine still continues to read books and listen to lectures.

I may agree with you that "Wedding Photographers" is one of the most overpaid jobs in the US (http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?guid=%7B954AA053%2DF953%2D43F3%2DBBC8%2 D63D351A3BF2A%7D&siteid=google&dist=google). However, as Bill Coleman, senior vice president of compensation for Salary.com, says,

"A lot of people are overpaid because there are certain things consumers just don't want screwed up. You wouldn't want to board a plane flown by a second-rate pilot or hire a cheap wedding photographer to record an event you hope happens once in your lifetime. With pro athletes, one owner is willing to pay big money for a star player and then all the other players want to keep up with the Joneses. The art with CEO pay is making sure your CEO is above the median -- and you see where that goes."

There, at least I agreed with you... but as you see, there's a justification for it.

Marco

I just remembered a quote from my Organization and Leadership professor...

"If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys"

I just remembered a quote from my Organization and Leadership professor...

"If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys"

but there is also a chance where you pay bananas and still get monkeys right?

photographers are basically the same. They are all humans.
This was even discussed in one of these threads and one of the pro's agreed.

There is just no skill or intelligence factor in this kind of work. All you do is peep through a small hole and press some buttons. This is as easy as using your DVD player isn't it? Even setting up a studio is as easy as setting up a home theater.

If you wan't to earn in this kind of field then go into buy and sell of camera's, lenses, and accesories. I'm just being frank and honest that merely taking photos will not earn you enough.

I have a wedding outfitting company and taking photographs is just one a small part of the entire package. After thorough study, I realized that there is just a lot of investments in the photography field but not enough return to even pay for the equipment, after depreciation has taken into consideration.

You ask even those instant photo branches in malls and they will tell you the same. That is why most of them go into automation.

Be fair guys. I do wedding photography and I dont rip-off my clients the way you guys do. Lets not make this profession looking bad.


Hope I did not offend anyone.

This post makes me laugh...that is some serious accusation on the majority of the professional wedding photogs in these forum. For one, they have a different market strata from what you are describing. Two, they have some of the best photo equipment in the business and three, they have the experience and talent.

Your last line is pathetic.

but there is also a chance where you pay bananas and still get monkeys right?

photographers are basically the same. They are all humans.
This was even discussed in one of these threads and one of the pro's agreed.

There is just no skill or intelligence factor in this kind of work. All you do is peep through a small hole and press some buttons. This is as easy as using your DVD player isn't it? Even setting up a studio is as easy as setting up a home theater.

If you wan't to earn in this kind of field then go into buy and sell of camera's, lenses, and accesories. I'm just being frank and honest that merely taking photos will not earn you enough.

I have a wedding outfitting company and taking photographs is just one a small part of the entire package. After thorough study, I realized that there is just a lot of investments in the photography field but not enough return to even pay for the equipment, after depreciation has taken into consideration.

You ask even those instant photo branches in malls and they will tell you the same. That is why most of them go into automation.

Ah now I know who the good and bad photographers are.

The good ones shoot with their head and not only with their fingers. I'd rather have the better wedding photographer than the extra entourage or ridiculous looking cake.

I hope you like club sandwiches.

mike p., try to hire some real photographers for your wedding outfit company, and not just those kargador-ng-bags-turned-photographer-coz-my-boss-asked-me-to, to shoot for you instead. maybe you'll appreciate the art more. oh and let me know if they start to ask about why they all got blurred shots during the reception and they can't seem to shoot non-harsh overexposed photos with dark backgrounds with their flashes. cool! then i'll sell you some cameras! :D and maybe your suggestion about selling them stuff ain't bad after all. :P

@ Mike Punzalan,

This is the third time you insulted top wedding professionals. One more and you're asking for trouble. Your experience is an isolated case and don't generalize the industry unless you have the facts to substanstiate it and not mere opinions. Photographers are well-respected world-wide. Where in the United States did you stay? Funny thing, when my relatives found out that I'm a photographer and I handle big corporate accounts as well, I never heard anything negative from them. Have you ever handled the A or upscale market? You are one of those guys who prefer volume over quality while we on the other hand do otherwise. Also, just a piece of advise, you will never win an argument over a woman. Being a professional photographer involves a lot of skills, talent and many other things. One of the qualities of a pro is work ethics. Calling us no-brainers is an insult. This will be your final warning. Respect also my friend - Mario Bes who started this thread. Your silly topic is out of line already and not related to his inquiries.

@Mike, I think you can get your point across without being insulting. I've been reading, and you do have some funny, but different views. i think most of the persons responding here are offended more with your tone, and how you are saying it more than your point of view.

From a fence sitter :)

I'm not saying you guys are no-brainers. I'm referring to the profession. I am also a photographer by profession by i dont see myself as no brainer.

Its just that, this profession is too easy and lacks that much skill and intelligence. Taking photos of people in a studio or in a wedding, or taking photos of models, and other saleable items, will not earn you enough.

There is just way too many people who can do this. This is kids stuff

I used to do 'dangerous' photography jobs like as some clients approach me to take clandestine photos of their cheating partners. My point and shoot was perfect for the job.

I even got paid around 150k for a set of photos because it will be used to strengthen an annulment case which will be filed.

This is 'real' photography. But my conscience do bother me and i'm losing much sleep knowing I break families and relationships. So now I only do wedding photography, and very much happy taking photos of people in-love and together (and yes I love taking photos of people who are in love even for a club house sandwich)


If you want to earn in photography and feed your family and kids then instead of taking useless photos of birds with your long lenses, you might as well go to Mindanao taking photos of MNLF or MILF in training or in Iraq taking photos of Al-Quaida etc..

Hope I made some sense. And you got my point.

If you want to earn in photography and feed your family and kids then instead of taking useless photos of birds with your long lenses, you might as well go to Mindanao taking photos of MNLF or MILF in training or in Iraq taking photos of Al-Quaida etc..

Hope I made some sense. And you got my point.

Mike, I can't help but smile...ok laugh loud in this latest post of yours. There are bird photogs here, Mike. Serious ones who doesn't mind lying down in the mud, get bitten by ants, chased by bees, or worse having bird droppings on their faces just to take that elusive and fantastic pic(s). They are a diffferent breed of photographers, Mike and yes they sometimes look and dress like snipers. Check out Romy's and Reyno's pix just to mention a few.

Respect Mike, respect. Give your argument a rest.....

Mike, I can't help but smile...ok laugh loud in this latest post of yours. There are bird photogs here, Mike. Serious ones who doesn't mind lying down in the mud, get bitten by ants, chased by bees, or worse having bird droppings on their faces just to take that elusive and fantastic pic(s). They are a diffferent breed of photographers, Mike and yes they sometimes look and dress like snipers. Check out Romy's and Reyno's pix just to mention a few.

Respect Mike, respect. Give your argument a rest.....


There's just way too few buyers of bird photos. :Grin: You could probably even catch that bird (i mean catch and put in a cage) and sell it in Arranque market and it will probably take you months before somebody will buy it from you, what more for photos.

But take a photo of Janjalani and friends and that will probably worth a thousand bird photos, (even if taking bird photos is risky enough due to bird flu).

Lets be true here, there is no money in fun jobs. There is on high-risk jobs. I'm not trying to be hypocrite, just being truthful, like most journalists.

@ Mike Punzalan

You're unbelievable, you don't only attack wedding and advertising photographers but other photographers in different fields. Are you sour-graping because you only have a point and shoot camera? If you want to buy an expensive digital camera, it involves hard-work. Derick Gamboa has a Canon 1D Mark 2 because he can afford to buy one and is successful in business. It should not be taken against him because he is happy with his hobby. Ariel Javelosa started with humble beginnings but he never stopped dreaming and reached for his goals in life.

Is your business legit? Do you pay the right taxes? Do you use pirated CDs? How many people do you employ? Is your production, creative and technical team insured? Do you give them meal and transporation allowance? How do you minimize your overhead cost? Better be careful, you might be taxed mapped by the BIR anytime.

I think DPP Administration has to intervene now, this is getting nowhere. You say you respect the profession but you always contradict yourself. I don't think you are a wedding photographer, you are more of an events organizer. I was an Events Director but never in my career did I attack or disrespect anyone. A photographer? I don't think so, how come your name doesn't ring a bell in the industry?

@ Mike Punzalan

You're unbelievable, you don't only attack wedding and advertising photographers but other photographers in different fields. Are you sour-graping because you only have a point and shoot camera? If you want to buy an expensive digital camera, it involves hard-work.

Is your business legit? Do you pay the right taxes? Do you use pirated CDs? How many people do you employ? Is your production, creative and technical team insured? Do you give them meal and transporation allowance? How do you minimize your overhead cost? Better be careful, you might be taxed mapped by the BIR anytime.

I think DPP Administration has to intervene now, this is getting nowhere. You say you respect the profession but you always contradict yourself. I don't think you are a wedding photographer, you are more of an events organizer. I was an Events Director but never in my career did I attack or disrespect anyone. A photographer? I don't think so, how come your name doesn't ring a bell in the industry?

I don't understand why you are over reacting. I'm not attacking anyone. I'm just trying to be true, frank, and honest. I never mentioned any names or generalized any group. Inasmuch as I would want to answer your questions, it is not on the right thread and we may be out of topic.

And by the obvious looks of it. You are the one attacking me, and giving names and all, and not the other way around.

If you wan't to earn in this kind of field then go into buy and sell of camera's, lenses, and accesories. I'm just being frank and honest that merely taking photos will not earn you enough.

I even got paid around 150k for a set of photos because it will be used to strengthen an annulment case which will be filed.

Huh??? 150K isn't that much to you? Boy you're a rich guy. So what is enough? :D

bwahahahahahahahahahahahahaha....sorry I just can't help it. This will never end........ stepping away from the keyboard now.

Huh??? 150K isn't that much to you? Boy you're a rich guy. So what is enough? :D

not really after the money, and photography is just my hobby not my fulltime-work. I have other work which provide for me better than photography. And as I have mentioned, it was a dangerous job and also bothers my conscience taking photos which will break relationships so I don't do that anymore.

not really after the money, and photography is just my hobby not my fulltime-work. I have other work which provide for me better than photography. And as I have mentioned, it was a dangerous job and also bothers my conscience taking photos which will break relationships so I don't do that anymore.
Oh I thought you're a photogapher as you mentioned in your previous post. Mike, learn to get the feel of the industry. You might be looking at the low end of the market. Actually, I'm looking into doing photography full-time when the time is right. I know it can provide for me more than I earn now. Maybe in Manila or maybe somewhere else. There is money in photography, you just have too look for it and work harder.

I think you have hurt a lot of people in this forum. I believe they deserve an apology. Especially the professional photographers here whom I admire and look up to.

if i may inject, i have observed that these threads develop/ end like this. i suppose i can now relate with Louie's dilemma trying to find common ground with the rate standardization initiative.

perhaps we can start a framework on rates per job type and start drilling down on actual rates being charged nowadays. then we take the average or most likely rates and agree to test market that as (merely) a rate "guide."

this approach is meant to be very simple and straightforward. it will merely be a survey of sorts so that what anyone claims to be his or her rate cannot be debated anymore.

The table could look something like this:

Row headings: types of jobs (food, wedding, editorial, etc)
it could have sub headings like (/day, /layout/ hr), (dslr, medium format, etc)

column headings: Semipro (more of a serious hobbyist who earned a small fee from limited job stints), 1/yr pro, 2yr pro, 3yr pro 5-10yrs as a pro and 11 yrs and over.

this is just a rough idea but i hope you get the idea. After this is finalized we can mail the form to this forum's registered users or even insert it in the next dpp issue. We then tally based on assigned weights you want to give each column or keep each columns as is and have separate rate guides for each.

how about it dpp/ Louie?

If you want to earn in photography and feed your family and kids then instead of taking useless photos of birds with your long lenses, you might as well go to Mindanao taking photos of MNLF or MILF in training or in Iraq taking photos of Al-Quaida etc..

Hope I made some sense. And you got my point.

Nonsense! stop making hasty generalizations will you???

Whoever said going to conflict areas is a gold mine for photography?! Please tell me how did this happenand I will pass it on to the Center for Photojournalism? And please explain why the profession is a no brainer if my colleagues go all the way to the UK or Turkey for Training on how to survive conflict areas?

Tammy... Did you sneak this bloke some happy herbs?

Honestly Mike... I find it next to impossible to even believe anything you say.
You sound like a kid. A Kid who got his lollipop taken away.

I mean seriously... that bit with you talking about how even if we pay with bananas we might still get monkeys... How friggin cheap can you get man?

And as I have mentioned, it was a dangerous job and also bothers my conscience taking photos which will break relationships so I don't do that anymore.

Oh I'm sorry. I got my answer. Everything makes sense now. I hope you're not damaged or troubled.

Nonsense! stop making hasty generalizations will you???

Whoever said going to conflict areas is a gold mine for photography?! Please tell me how did this happenand I will pass it on to the Center for Photojournalism? And please explain why the profession is a no brainer if my colleagues go all the way to the UK or Turkey for Training on how to survive conflict areas?

Tammy, cool ka lang. hehehehe :)

Tammy, cool ka lang. hehehehe :)

Sorry but it's a touchy subject for me. My boyfriend left his job at SGV for the love of photojournalism. I get sleepless nights whever he's on coverage. But that's what he enjoys and he sacrificed a lot for this. I long for that type of fulfillment. Then there's this "brilliant" and arrogant point and shooter who posts stuff that makes ALL photographers look greedy and continues to yak that the profession is a "no-brainer" I am indeed offended

http://digitalphotographer.com.ph/fB_Dark/statusicon/post_old.gif 10-24-2006, 03:34 PM #30 (http://digitalphotographer.com.ph/forum/showpost.php?p=34664&postcount=30)Mike Punzalan (http://digitalphotographer.com.ph/forum/member.php?u=1838) vbmenu_register("postmenu_34664", true);
DPP Freshman

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 70




night shooting? there is always a flash to do it..

and if ever you dont want to use flash, for night shooting, s3 is at iso 400, slow shutter speed, smallest aperture (set to full manual please), tripod, with noise reduction software is very clean, SLR like quality.

you see, its not on the camera, its the person using it.. a good photographer learns to utilize his tools to the fullest.. http://digitalphotographer.com.ph/forum/images/smilies/Drogar-BigGrin(DBG).gif

SEE ABOVE.
The same MIKE PUNZALAN was preaching about good photography in other threads. Makes me question the purpose of his posting here ...... hmmmm

Anyways, as long as we are passionate with our craft and providing our clients with our best work then no Mike Punzalan can ever put us down.

fol

tammy, you know now who to invite to the next cosmo 69 :) you can bring your G5 and he can bring his SxiS hehehe. i just thought that he might need that break. probably got too praning with his last big-paying job.

tammy, you know now who to invite to the next cosmo 69 :) you can bring your G5 and he can bring his SxiS hehehe. i just thought that he might need that break. probably got too praning with his last big-paying job.

Hahahahaha don't make me type all my evil thoughts!

Sorry but it's a touchy subject for me. My boyfriend left his job at SGV for the love of photojournalism. I get sleepless nights whever he's on coverage. But that's what he enjoys and he sacrificed a lot for this. I long for that type of fulfillment. Then there's this "brilliant" and arrogant point and shooter who posts stuff that makes ALL photographers look greedy and continues to yak that the profession is a "no-brainer" I am indeed offended

I agree 100% that all photographers deserve respect. No doubt about that. Maybe we should just cut down on lechon kawali and crispy pata. :D

Shoot na lang tayo! hehehe :Grin:

I'm sorry Mike but I think you did.

But I'll let my relatives know there is a certain Mike Punzalan who will take wedding photos for a clubhouse sandwich.

Natawa naman ako dito Tammy =) he he he.

@Mike. Show us that wedding shoot you had with your point and shoot camera. If I'm satisfied with your work I just might get you as a 2nd photographer and make you use a Canon G5 ONLY throughout the wedding.

..... so much for the yak yak yak.

:Thinking:

http://digitalphotographer.com.ph/fB_Dark/statusicon/post_old.gif 10-24-2006, 03:34 PM #30 (http://digitalphotographer.com.ph/forum/showpost.php?p=34664&postcount=30)Mike Punzalan (http://digitalphotographer.com.ph/forum/member.php?u=1838) vbmenu_register("postmenu_34664", true);
DPP Freshman

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 70




night shooting? there is always a flash to do it..

and if ever you dont want to use flash, for night shooting, s3 is at iso 400, slow shutter speed, smallest aperture (set to full manual please), tripod, with noise reduction software is very clean, SLR like quality.

you see, its not on the camera, its the person using it.. a good photographer learns to utilize his tools to the fullest.. http://digitalphotographer.com.ph/forum/images/smilies/Drogar-BigGrin%28DBG%29.gif

SEE ABOVE.
The same MIKE PUNZALAN was preaching about good photography in other threads. Makes me question the purpose of his posting here ...... hmmmm

Anyways, as long as we are passionate with our craft and providing our clients with our best work then no Mike Punzalan can ever put us down.

fol
Yup Fol, I saw this Mike on at least 3 threads preaching about photography.

@Mike, what if your tools can't serve you anymore due to it's limitations?
Like what I always say to those saying "wala sa pana yan, nasa indian yan" ........ Kahit si Legolas pa ang tumira ng pana mo kung mapurol yan sablay pa rin yan.

:Grin:

Natawa naman ako dito Tammy =) he he he.

@Mike. Show us that wedding shoot you had with your point and shoot camera.
:Thinking:

Good idea,

Mike Punzalan Put up or shut up!

Mike

Kahit si Legolas pa ang tumira ng pana mo kung mapurol yan sablay pa rin yan.

:Grin:

Hehe, he can always transform into a pirate :D

(napapaisip padin ako sa PM mo pre, kaya lang masasakal ako ni misis :D)

He he he pero pag mapurol ang pana sablay pa rin yan =)

@ David. He he he ok lang yun pre, Ako ilang beses na sinakal pero loves pa rin niya ako he he he =) Sige take your time. I'm not rushing naman.

Keep on shooting everybody! Never mind those you know who they are. They have nothing to show kaya yaking na lang he he he.

As for photography rates, I'l leave that to brother louie louie louie

=)

brother louie louie louie

=)

Buking, 80's boy hehe...

http://static.flickr.com/112/286790688_698ef1a4a0_o.jpg

http://digitalphotographer.com.ph/fB_Dark/statusicon/post_old.gif 10-24-2006, 03:34 PM #30 (http://digitalphotographer.com.ph/forum/showpost.php?p=34664&postcount=30)Mike Punzalan (http://digitalphotographer.com.ph/forum/member.php?u=1838) vbmenu_register("postmenu_34664", true);
DPP Freshman

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 70




night shooting? there is always a flash to do it..

and if ever you dont want to use flash, for night shooting, s3 is at iso 400, slow shutter speed, smallest aperture (set to full manual please), tripod, with noise reduction software is very clean, SLR like quality.

you see, its not on the camera, its the person using it.. a good photographer learns to utilize his tools to the fullest.. http://digitalphotographer.com.ph/forum/images/smilies/Drogar-BigGrin(DBG).gif

SEE ABOVE.
The same MIKE PUNZALAN was preaching about good photography in other threads. Makes me question the purpose of his posting here ...... hmmmm

Anyways, as long as we are passionate with our craft and providing our clients with our best work then no Mike Punzalan can ever put us down.

fol

well its not really that hard to learn using a camera and take good photos. That is why I call it a no brainer profession. Somehow I seem to get bored after a while looking for some ways to keep my mind working. :)

Somehow, when I think about it. If stupid me can do operate a camera and take good photos, well a lot of people can probably also do it. This is why I dont consider this as something worthwhile or challenging at all.

Now if anybody can send me to Iraq to take challenging photos. (I miss the danger of taking clandestine photos and spying on people)

@ Mike Punzalan,

Dude, you are not only out of topic but on the denial stage and probably have a 2nd personality. I never attacked you or called you any names. That's why I'm asking you questions, to verify your intentions in posting at this thread. Being Frank also means that you need to have some social responsibility and be tactful. If you did not hurt anyone in this forum, how come so many people are offended?

You are actually the one who attacked me by making fun of my Parrot eating papaya Avatar by calling it a stupid shot. For your information, I don't shoot birds for a living. I took that photo as my entry to the National Geographic Photo Contest last year. It was also my gift to my niece and newphews from the province as a souvenir when we took them for a visit at Manila Zoo. I also did not use any long telephoto lens but the standard 18-70mm AFS-DX f3.5-5.6 lens of my humble Nikon D70 which I still use not only in Weddings but also in Fashion and Advertising Photography.

Even if you give me Php 150k just to shoot like a Paparazzo, I will not do it. You know why? Infidelity is not a basis for annulment. It is a rip-off to take that offer. I've been to the Marriage Tribunal in Intramuros and know Canon Lawyers (not camera owners of Canon and lawyers at the same time but those who specialize in Church Law). One of the basis for annulment is Psychological Incapacity.

You have a different target market and you cannot compare it to the market of top wedding and advertising photographers in the country. You yourself said that you are not a photographer anymore so stop this nonsense now before you suffer further humiliation.

@Everyone

A word of caution... If you guys wanna know what he's trying to do here, look here (http://tipidpc.com/viewtopic.php?tid=62350&page=36). Mike aka alphares/jalongganiza/mikep.

He won't stop until everything is all personal and off-topic. So please, just ignore him and let's return to the topic.

I was very much interested on this informative thread before it got trolled. :(

well, it has been trolled already. its really a big sick joke. as randall said, just let this thread die off.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

http://www.urban75.com/Mag/troll.html

Buking, 80's boy hehe...

ha ha ha. You got me there. :D

Well guys if you just followed my advice (as what Maam Harvery did), this thread should have stopped many pages ago.

@ Mitz,

I wanted to follow your advise as well as that of Marco and Mam Harvey but as what a priest once told me, always give the person the benefit of the doubt before passing judgement. Well, the guy did not pass the cross-examination with the series of questions I gave him. Let's now go back to the main topic. Calling Sir Louie Aguinaldo, any feedback update on the Standard Rate Guide?

If anyone is serious about working towards establishing a rate guide and other photo business guidelines (copyrights, glossary, terms and conditions, procedures etc.), I am available, and willing to host our initial meetings. Since Louie A. started this, I can work with him and whoever else would like to work on this project. All we need is a small core group to come up with one set of guidelines (maybe for the advertising sector, to start with), and maybe from there the other photography sectors can follow and produce their own. We'd need to meet to define our objectives and plan our course of action. The Association of Photographers (a U.K.-based org) has done an excellent job and maybe we can follow their lead, and adapt and localize the guidelines that they have produced. Let's get going on this. Any volunteers?

Sure, we all have to work together to make our passion into a good business. I'm in.

If anyone is serious about working towards establishing a rate guide and other photo business guidelines (copyrights, glossary, terms and conditions, procedures etc.), I am available, and willing to host our initial meetings. Since Louie A. started this, I can work with him and whoever else would like to work on this project. All we need is a small core group to come up with one set of guidelines (maybe for the advertising sector, to start with), and maybe from there the other photography sectors can follow and produce their own. We'd need to meet to define our objectives and plan our course of action. The Association of Photographers (a U.K.-based org) has done an excellent job and maybe we can follow their lead, and adapt and localize the guidelines that they have produced. Let's get going on this. Any volunteers?

Ma'am Harvey, I want to help but problem is I'm overseas. Anyway, let me know how I can help. I would also like to get the feel how the rates are in Manila.

@ Mike Punzalan,

Dude, you are not only out of topic but on the denial stage and probably have a 2nd personality. I never attacked you or called you any names. That's why I'm asking you questions, to verify your intentions in posting at this thread. Being Frank also means that you need to have some social responsibility and be tactful. If you did not hurt anyone in this forum, how come so many people are offended?

You are actually the one who attacked me by making fun of my Parrot eating papaya Avatar by calling it a stupid shot. For your information, I don't shoot birds for a living. I took that photo as my entry to the National Geographic Photo Contest last year. It was also my gift to my niece and newphews from the province as a souvenir when we took them for a visit at Manila Zoo. I also did not use any long telephoto lens but the standard 18-70mm AFS-DX f3.5-5.6 lens of my humble Nikon D70 which I still use not only in Weddings but also in Fashion and Advertising Photography.

Even if you give me Php 150k just to shoot like a Paparazzo, I will not do it. You know why? Infidelity is not a basis for annulment. It is a rip-off to take that offer. I've been to the Marriage Tribunal in Intramuros and know Canon Lawyers (not camera owners of Canon and lawyers at the same time but those who specialize in Church Law). One of the basis for annulment is Psychological Incapacity.

You have a different target market and you cannot compare it to the market of top wedding and advertising photographers in the country. You yourself said that you are not a photographer anymore so stop this nonsense now before you suffer further humiliation.

huh?? I did not make fun of your papaya eating parrot (who cares about your bird, my bird is bigger:Grin: ).

I just mentioned that taking bird photographs will not earn you enough money.

And with regards to 150k, it is a small amount if you consider that the estate of the couple that will be divided between them will be worth more than 8 million pesos.

So 4 million pesos going to the party who hired me is a large amount of money if you compare it with the 150k they paid me.

PS: It should be papaya-eating parrot not PARROT EATING PAPAYA! hahaha!

To take the first steps towards having a pricing guideline, we just need sample quotations, rate sheets, contracts etc. - anything that you can gather. We will then try to prepare templates. We will not even venture into putting numbers there yet - descriptions muna of work to be done, what needs to be submitted - you know - the elements that go into a proposal.

You can email them to me, or if this forum allows you, we can post them here. (let me check the forum rules on this). You can remove the amounts - those are not needed at this point.

Ok, let's roll up our sleeves and start working.:)

Natawa naman ako dito Tammy =) he he he.

@Mike. Show us that wedding shoot you had with your point and shoot camera. If I'm satisfied with your work I just might get you as a 2nd photographer and make you use a Canon G5 ONLY throughout the wedding.

..... so much for the yak yak yak.

:Thinking:


Now that's a challenge:Grin:

Sure, we all have to work together to make our passion into a good business. I'm in.

Thanks and welcome. :Grin: May I have your email address?

Ma'am Harvey, I want to help but problem is I'm overseas. Anyway, let me know how I can help. I would also like to get the feel how the rates are in Manila.

Thanks for the offer. You can help.

If you see any rate sheets, cost estimates, quotations or anything like that over there, just scan and send them here. My email is harvey@adphoto.com.ph or harveychua0208@gmail.com

I will collate these materials - try to come up with a definition of commonly-used terms, templates for rate sheets, procedures for submissions - anything that can help make it easier for photographers to understand the business of photography.

If anyone is serious about working towards establishing a rate guide and other photo business guidelines (copyrights, glossary, terms and conditions, procedures etc.), I am available, and willing to host our initial meetings. Since Louie A. started this, I can work with him and whoever else would like to work on this project. All we need is a small core group to come up with one set of guidelines (maybe for the advertising sector, to start with), and maybe from there the other photography sectors can follow and produce their own. We'd need to meet to define our objectives and plan our course of action. The Association of Photographers (a U.K.-based org) has done an excellent job and maybe we can follow their lead, and adapt and localize the guidelines that they have produced. Let's get going on this. Any volunteers?


hello mam,
arlene chua here from cebu.i think there's a big problem in photography rates .,Coz there are many divers(fly by night photographer) and most of the filipino people don't respect our profession or let say they are not educated about photography.

arlene chua

@Eric... I sent you a PM but your storage quote has been reached.

well its not really that hard to learn using a camera and take good photos. That is why I call it a no brainer profession. Somehow I seem to get bored after a while looking for some ways to keep my mind working. :)

Somehow, when I think about it. If stupid me can do operate a camera and take good photos, well a lot of people can probably also do it. This is why I dont consider this as something worthwhile or challenging at all.

Now if anybody can send me to Iraq to take challenging photos. (I miss the danger of taking clandestine photos and spying on people)


hi, mike do you know how to develop film in black and white? and how to read light without using light meters? and do you know whats bracketing means?

my god mike ...photography is a combination of talent and math to achive the perfect exposure ., maybe your using full automatic in your camera thats why its boring.:(

@ Marco,

Thanks for your concern. No point replying anymore to this person since he cannot be convinced by facts and reason. Now I know his true colors. Until then. Best Regards.

Gee, this long, and not Mod or Admin intervention?

Wake up guys.

i only see opinions raised on this thread from either side. just another nikon/canon thread hehe... i kinda like reading the guy's reactions on mike p.'s personal opinion. i would say i learned a thing or two. :D i think the mods are alright for letting this pass for now. just me though.

;)

Gee, this long, and not Mod or Admin intervention?

Wake up guys.

We're actually monitoring this thread.

Can we go back to the original topic of this thread? There is so much that we need to do to help solve business problems confronting photographers nowadays.

We can't be spending our precious time debating something that will never be resolved. If you have self-respect, you will be respected, and no amount of put downs from other photographers (or non-photographers) can bring you down.

Let's please focus. Can you help by providing sample descriptions of the work that you do - as you write them on your proposals? The numbers (pesos and centavos) can come later - for now, descriptions muna. Thanks.

The thread is useful, just ignore the troll and keep discussing whatever needs to be discussed... Vbulletin allows you to ignore a certain poster's posts anyway, just click that and poof, tapos issue.

Click on his user ID >> View public Profile >> click IGNORE... and you won't see his posts anymore hehe.

I posted this in another thread but I'll also post it here.

Here is an example of a rate guide for the US market.

http://photographersindex.com/stockprice.htm

Mike

I posted this in another thread but I'll also post it here.

Here is an example of a rate guide for the US market.

http://photographersindex.com/stockprice.htm

Mike

Thanks, Mike. That's one of our goals then, to be able to do an internet-based interactive rate guideline/calculator for Philippine photographers, just like what this website that Mike pointed us to does for American photographers.

perhaps we can start a framework on rates per job type and start drilling down on actual rates being charged nowadays. then we take the average or most likely rates and agree to test market that as (merely) a rate "guide."

this approach is meant to be very simple and straightforward. it will merely be a survey of sorts so that what anyone claims to be his or her rate cannot be debated anymore.

The table could look something like this:

Row headings: types of jobs (food, wedding, editorial, etc)
it could have sub headings like (/day, /layout/ hr), (dslr, medium format, etc)

column headings: Semipro (more of a serious hobbyist who earned a small fee from limited job stints), 1/yr pro, 2yr pro, 3yr pro 5-10yrs as a pro and 11 yrs and over.

this is just a rough idea but i hope you get the idea. After this is finalized we can mail the form to this forum's registered users or even insert it in the next dpp issue. We then tally based on assigned weights you want to give each column or keep each columns as is and have separate rate guides for each.

how about it dpp/ Louie?
The calculator is also based on a survey...

@ Mam Harvey,

Thanks for your motherly advice. It's very much appreciated. I'd like to help, probably we can come up first with a survey form applicable to the local Philippine setting with a series of questions so that all data needed will be addressed. As much as possible, I recommend coordinating this with Sir Louie Aguinaldo since he might have already prepared one, just for the purpose of uniformity and to avoid any redundancies. What do you think? It is also advisable to have Team Leaders for each industry like one is in charge of Weddings, the other one in Fashion, Advertising and so forth. Teamwork is essential for the success of the rate guide.

hi, mike do you know how to develop film in black and white? and how to read light without using light meters? and do you know whats bracketing means?

my god mike ...photography is a combination of talent and math to achive the perfect exposure ., maybe your using full automatic in your camera thats why its boring.:(

really? wow, you must be really that smart turning a very simple task to something very difficult!

And perhaps that goes to all the rest of the talented monk err photographer, peeping through that black box and pressing some buttons:Grin:


Perhaps you are using a computer browsing this thread. Why don't you try to calculate how you arrived at this website and post the result here in this thread. It will surely be interesting:D

Hail to your idols. Should I bow down to your photographer God? hahaha!


Quit this joke. Everyone are PHOTOGRAPHERS (even if you own 7k peso camera phone).

Dont make your own make belief world of Greatness (and this quote goes to all others as well living in their own world of self proclaimed greatness)

I'm a photographer myself (or perhaps a picture taker as some of you intend to call me) . But enough of the arrogance. As this thread is starting to smell foul with you people proclaiming your own greatness with your cameras.

Everyone are PHOTOGRAPHERS (even if you own 7k peso camera phone).


Everyone is a photographer, but only few are great ones.

The calculator is also based on a survey...

This is why I have volunteered to help conduct this survey. I have offered to help Louie A, since he initiated this move. We need to take more steps (a lot more) after Louie took the crucial first.

@ Mam Harvey,

Thanks for your motherly advice. It's very much appreciated. I'd like to help, probably we can come up first with a survey form applicable to the local Philippine setting with a series of questions so that all data needed will be addressed. As much as possible, I recommend coordinating this with Sir Louie Aguinaldo since he might have already prepared one, just for the purpose of uniformity and to avoid any redundancies. What do you think? It is also advisable to have Team Leaders for each industry like one is in charge of Weddings, the other one in Fashion, Advertising and so forth. Teamwork is essential for the success of the rate guide.

You are correct. Would you know if Louie is out of the town or out of the country? I suppose he reads this thread and is aware of suggestions that are coming from readers like you.

I agree that we need team leaders for each sector. Would you like to be team leader for your sector? Louie can and should be the overall chairman. I can help with the advertising sector.

May we hear from the others, especially those who are willing to volunteer as team leaders?:) or even as members?

Everyone is a photographer, but only few are great ones.

There should be a different rate for a great photographer.

Ok guys. Lets help one another make a rate. Here's a sample outline

Great Photographer - rate
Great, great photographer - rate
not so great photographer - rate
greatly photographer - rate

:Grin:

@ Mam Harvey,

Thanks for your motherly advice. It's very much appreciated. I'd like to help, probably we can come up first with a survey form applicable to the local Philippine setting with a series of questions so that all data needed will be addressed. As much as possible, I recommend coordinating this with Sir Louie Aguinaldo since he might have already prepared one, just for the purpose of uniformity and to avoid any redundancies. What do you think? It is also advisable to have Team Leaders for each industry like one is in charge of Weddings, the other one in Fashion, Advertising and so forth. Teamwork is essential for the success of the rate guide.

Why is wedding different from fashion? taking photographs is merely peeping through a small hole, everything is the same. And in fact makes me wonder why there should even be a rate guide.

Its like a professional cleaning services guy, where the rate for cleaning a windows is different from cleaning a door :Grin:

You can really turn a task so simple into looking so complex. Hail to you great one.

There should be a different rate for a great photographer.

Ok guys. Lets help one another make a rate. Here's a sample outline

:Grin:
Great Photographer - rate
Great, great photographer - rate
not so great photographer - rate
greatly photographer - rate
no talent and ignorant photographer=MIKE PUNZALAN RATE 50 CENTAVOS:Grin:

You are dead wrong!!!

no talent and ignorant photographer=MIKE PUNZALAN RATE Sky Flakes.

Great Photographer - rate
Great, great photographer - rate
not so great photographer - rate
greatly photographer - rate
no talent and ignorant photographer=MIKE PUNZALAN RATE 50 CENTAVOS:Grin:

You are dead wrong!!!

no talent and ignorant photographer=MIKE PUNZALAN RATE Sky Flakes.



hahahahaha!!!!!!correct !!!!!:Grin:

You are dead wrong!!!

no talent and ignorant photographer=MIKE PUNZALAN RATE Sky Flakes.

Rolando,

That's a personal attack. Please never again.

Lets get back to the original discussion of this thread. Harvey Chua is taking the initiative and lets stick to that conversation please.

@Mike Punlazan- I'd appreciate if you respect the moderators of this forum and do not comment further on this thread please. Thank you.

Lets get back to the original discussion of this thread. Harvey Chua is taking the initiative and lets stick to that conversation please.

@Mike Punlazan- I'd appreciate if you respect the moderators of this forum and do not comment further on this thread please. Thank you.

Sir Nick, thanks for intervening! So let's just get back to the discussion...:)

Thanks. I really accept skyflakes as payment.

Its just a hobby for me. And I guess a task so simple does not deserve any fee.

If anybody knows any photography task for me, let me know. I will take the photos, you pay the prints, my transportation, and food. Thats all.

Sir Nick, thanks for intervening! So let's just get back to the discussion...:)

I think we can get some work done, finally. :) When we were starting advertising photography more than 33 years ago, there were no cost estimates, no contracts, no p.o.'s etc. Agencies would not even share their compres with us, kasi confidential daw.

Slowly, we worked our way up, and we even got to organize an association of advertising photographers (now called APP), and even a stronger and wider org called Advertising Suppliers Association of the Philippines. There was a time when photographers were so united that we succeeded in getting downpayments. We wore T-shirts with words "No Down. No Shoot" and clients did prepare the downpayments. We informed each other about bad accounts. We offered seminars and workshops. We held meetings regularly. Result - we had better cashflows, we were better informed, we had fun at meetings, the camaraderie was great.

However, with some external pressures, photographers' trust in each other started to erode, and sadly, we're back to being unable to collect downpayments (and sometimes, even final payments). We're also back to just complaining about each other undercutting prices. We're back to not attending meetings with fellow photographers.

There are many issues that have to be resolved, and they can only be done when photographers unite and work together to come up with some common guidelines on a variety of issues, and a rate or price guideline is just one of them.

For example, in the days of transparencies and black&white prints, we sort of all agreed that giving clients 3 to 5 trannies per product shot and maybe 10 if we're shooting talents was sufficient. Of course, paminsan minsan we would hear that some photographers give all - both good takes and rejects, but it was easy to reason out to clients that all they needed was one final photo to scan. So photographers tried to work within a budget of an x number of sheets or rolls of film, and polaroids. It was easier to compute variable costs. We knew when we were getting lugi na, but usually we would go beyond the budgeted films only when we had underestimated how difficult the set ups were going to be. At all other times, we stuck to our budget.

Now that we've gone digital, we can't seem to put a limit on the number of exposures that we should take. Our clients reason out that we're not spending on films anyway, and photographers are finding it difficult to explain why they still have to limit the number of shots. And so shoots take longer. There are all sorts of variations expected. Clients are able to build up whole libraries of images for use in different applications, so they're happy. Sadly, for the photographers, instead of prices going higher, they even went lower.

I think photographers need to agree on the final submissions - how many should we submit to clients? all the shots taken, or a selection?

We need to agree on what we should submit clients? Do we submit Tiff files or raw? (one or two agencies have started to ask for raw files). isn't that the same as surrendering negatives? What do you say, guys?

How do we charge for variations? What do we consider variations? When do we consider that it's another set up? One time, it was just assumed that the photographer would shoot variations of one talent (a tv comedienne), including change of clothes and we were just supposed to throw in the extras. It was hard for us to argue that that's another set up that entailed additional cost, but it was settled by the tv talent, when she declared that if she would have to change clothes, the client would have to pay her again. We didn't have to shoot a second set up. I feel that photographers are too nice for their own good, and we should learn from this TV actress how to stand up for our rights.

The Association of Photographers (a U.K.-based org) has some good advice. http://www.copyright4clients.com/

I would like to ask Louie A if he has drafted a survey that will make it easier for photographers to express their opinions and thoughts on these matters. We probably also have to separate and segregate the questions and issues and assign groups of photographers to work on particular topics.

I will write more, if you guys think these questions are relevant and will lead to some fruitful discussions. Right now, I have to work - need to finish writing a proposal for a client. :)

Harvey,

I think you should start a fresh new thread for this initiative that way it is free from all the mud slinging. The rate guide is a noble idea and we would like to lend our support also.

Harvey,

I think you should start a fresh new thread for this initiative that way it is free from all the mud slinging. The rate guide is a noble idea and we would like to lend our support also.

I believe the title of this thread is "Photography Rates" and so this discussion rightfully belongs here. Maybe Mike P. can start another thread that he can call "mudslinging, insults, provocations etc." Joke only. :D couldn't resist. :)

We wore T-shirts with words "No Down. No Shoot" . :)

what if your supposed to be client tells you "Then don't shoot, I would rather buy my own camera and do it myself"


Its a simple task. Its the digital age. Just about everyone has knowledge in photography, knows what focus is, knows what aperture/shutter is, knows what a good lighting is, and cameras come cheap.

Dont expect that people will pay you for things they can do on their own.

Its like a professional house cleaner that owns a large, stainless steel, vacuum cleaner knocking on a house and telling the house owner that his vacuum cleaner can clean the house. When in fact every household already owns cute, colorful, and powerful vacuum cleaners as well. :)

Even Microsoft is into photography. Go and buy Windows and you will see all sorts of manuals, documentation about photography. And DSLR cameras will even have movie recording in the next few months. DSLR cameras are just as common as DVD players, stereo components etc. Its a household appliance.

No offense meant. Just my personal opinion.

Harvey, do continue your work. I believe it improves everyone's earning potential -newbie and seasoned pros alike. It may be difficult but somebody has to get the ball rolling.

I believe the title of this thread is "Photography Rates" and so this discussion rightfully belongs here. Maybe Mike P. can start another thread that he can call "mudslinging, insults, provocations etc." Joke only. :D couldn't resist. :)

because the title is nonsense. There is no such thing as photography rate. Its like putting up a thread about "Operating DVD player rate". These is so simple and everyone can do it, and everyone can buy a very good camera that has basically everything.

I think the main competitor to photographers are the stylists. I would accept Mike's argument if it assumes zero creative input from the photographer, but if it's the photographer who decided the layout, the placing of lights, the final pose, etc.. then that is what the client is paying for - releasing the shutter is simply the final step to the entire process.

The stylists, on the other hand, is whole different story as they can potentially take the entire creative process away from the photographer (as I often notice in fashion eds) thereby relegating us to simply to light placement and the technical side of photography. No wonder, that there's a lot of husband-and-wife photographer-stylist teams.

Is my observation correct?

I think the main competitor to photographers are the stylists. I would accept Mike's argument if it assumes zero creative input from the photographer, but if it's the photographer who decided the layout, the placing of lights, the final pose, etc.. then that is what the client is paying for - releasing the shutter is simply the final step to the entire process.

The stylists, on the other hand, is whole different story as they can potentially take the entire creative process away from the photographer (as I often notice in fashion eds) thereby relegating us to simply to light placement and the technical side of photography. No wonder, that there's a lot of husband-and-wife photographer-stylist teams.

Is my observation correct?

agree. just going to a place with your camera and clicking it does not mean anything. You have to do just about everything, from being a make-up artist, to hairstylist, lighting engineer, interior designer etc etc. Then it makes some sense.

I even saw a model neighbor of mine who works for modeling agency somewhere in a mall promoting this wine and posing for photos with customers, the photographer was just using those cheap 8k peso point and shoot, and it was a night setting. Anybody can be a photographer and take photos.

You can even hardly distinguish a photo taken with a cheap 8k peso digicam with one taken with a 40k peso DSLR on most instances..

agree. just going to a place with your camera and clicking it does not mean anything. You have to do just about everything, from being a make-up artist, to hairstylist, lighting engineer, interior designer etc etc. Then it makes some sense.

I even saw a model neighbor of mine who works for modeling agency somewhere in a mall promoting this wine and posing for photos with customers, the photographer was just using those cheap 8k peso point and shoot, and it was a night setting. Anybody can be a photographer and take photos.

You're right. Anyone can buy a camera and then call himself a photographer. You're probably also right that at some point, what camera you use will not really matter. As they like to say here in DPP, it's the indian not the pana.

But, assuming ceteris paribus, there will be differences between two photographers - composition will vary at the very least. It's all about the eye, and you can't buy that.

Cartier-Besson and I could be in the same atelier, shooting the same bowl of fruit [if he ever deigned to shoot a bowl of fruit] and I bet my first born child I'll turn out something prosaic and he'll turn out art.

what if your supposed to be client tells you "Then don't shoot, I would rather buy my own camera and do it myself"


Its a simple task. Its the digital age. Just about everyone has knowledge in photography, knows what focus is, knows what aperture/shutter is, knows what a good lighting is, and cameras come cheap.

Dont expect that people will pay you for things they can do on their own.

Its like a professional house cleaner that owns a large, stainless steel, vacuum cleaner knocking on a house and telling the house owner that his vacuum cleaner can clean the house. When in fact every household already owns cute, colorful, and powerful vacuum cleaners as well. :)

Even Microsoft is into photography. Go and buy Windows and you will see all sorts of manuals, documentation about photography. And DSLR cameras will even have movie recording in the next few months. DSLR cameras are just as common as DVD players, stereo components etc. Its a household appliance.

No offense meant. Just my personal opinion.


will u pls stop ! coz u dont know about photography,,even the meaning of SLR u dont know

all opinions welcome here right?

but when point is already made, then there's a time to stop and allow people to think it over and make up their own minds...

and i think there's a time for the moderators to step in when the point becomes moot...

my 1 centavo opinion lang po

will u pls stop ! coz u dont know about photography,,even the meaning of SLR u dont know

SLR- one piece of device that takes pictures, promoted by manufacturers to earn them lots of moolah, glorified by magazines, and bought by helpless, misinformed consumers.
Its a device used by consumers to take photos, but used by manufacturers to take money out of the consumer's pocket, by making the consumers buy big lens, and multiple kinds of lens which are more expensive than the SLR itself.

SLR- one piece of device that takes pictures, promoted by manufacturers to earn them lots of moolah, glorified by magazines, and bought by helpless, misinformed consumers.
Its a device used by consumers to take photos, but used by manufacturers to take money out of the consumer's pocket, by making the consumers buy big lens, and multiple kinds of lens which are more expensive than the SLR itself.

you are something else. your arrogance and sarcasm is very very distasteful. you have already made your point and it is futile to try and making a one up on other members. i am sure i speak for others when i say that i would please appreciate you take your comments and attitude somewhere else.

@ Carlo
Agree! Methinks he needs to take a long walk off a short pier. :D

manners and common courtsey doesnt stop in the internet.

manners and common courtsey doesnt stop in the internet.

AGREED! :)

Woahhhhh! :Thinking: May I suggest the active members of this thread to take a few minutes to relax and breathe... Obviously, this is a very sensitive topic and throwing names around will not really solve anything. There is a pool of information here, which are made up of facts and opinions and even emotional outbursts; let us all remember that regardless of whatever it is we choose to incline to believe in or not, it would be always wiser to learn to read between the lines. We should also consider that since everyone has their right to speak or voice out--sometimes it is more prudent to keep our silence, since anything we say can or may be used against us given proper ground...

So Please STAND DOWN people!

May I move that this thread just be CLOSED until further notice or availability of more substantial facts or references so to prevent further agitation and at the same time, to make the information here still be made accessible for other members...

@ Mam Harvey,

I just spoke to Mr. Nolo Rosales of DPI - one of the business partners of Sir Louie Aguinaldo, he said that Sir Louie has been busy lately with the rate guide and coordinating with many photographers. He is in the country and within Metro Manila. Message will be relayed to him and hopefully he will respond to this thread.

I can help by being one of the members of the team leaders. Leaders for me are role models and are therefore appointed by their peers and not on a voluntary basis alone. I've been shooting weddings here in the Philippines for only two (2) years since my arrival from abroad. There are other photographers here who are more experienced and senior than I am and I respect their seniority, skills and talent in the industry. I don't want to pre-empt anything but simply give them the professional courtesy they deserve.

@ Mike Punzalan,

The moderators have intervened already. Please respect their decision. You have made your point and Christmas is fast approaching, time to repent. There are also different types of cleaners, some work on the road while others work on the hotels and their job is indeed different because each one has a unique work environment and requirement.

@ Sensei Earl,

I second your suggestion to close this thread. Dewa Oitoma Shimasu. Best Regards.

I wish Mike Punzalan will now stop his rant on photography..

I started this thread to know from the pros how to charge for the photography i make and how to standardize it to help the industry..I do food photography and believe me its hard work, a food shoot usually taking about 4 to 5 hours..

From my experience..

its not just clicking the shutter, its previsualizing the scene, in this case showing the most appetizing look of the food, with the combination of artistry and technical options available to you..

its not just looking into a small hole, you have to think how you can satisfy your client and his customer (when i see my pic will it whet my appetitie salivate? will it move me into ordering that food and enjoying it? will my client be able to sell the food thru my pics)

its not just making a picture (you have be precise on your technique, when your client blows up your picture to 1.5m x 1.5m will it still look good?)

you have to be an expert in managing resources and time (the clients kitchen cooks the food you photograph and you sometimes have to schedule its poduction to jive with your shooting and you dont want to spoil the food)

you must have the skill ( The restaurant business is fast paced and it wont wait for you while youre still learning how to operate a camera, they have to open the resto now and they need the menus and the pictures for their murals)

its a professionals job and its rewarding if you do it right (not for sky flakes!) Not just in food but in other areas as well, i really appreciate those who are contributing to this thread in making the standard rates possible..

Very well put Mario

since the original thread starter got his answers we can now lock down the thread