Picking up from the response of Ross in that other 'interesting' thread, may I know your opinion on who can or should be doing a critique on photos posted by other members in the forum?

Should newbies like me just limit our comments on the positive? Or can I give a negative comment (or rather, constructive criticisms) as long as I don't make it appear like I'm insulting/demeaning the work of the poster? But, a constructive criticism for me might come out as downright insult for another? Where do I draw the line?

Thanks!:)

Here's my opinion,

One of the easiest things in the world is to find faults in others. It's finding fault in one's self that's difficult hence the need for critique.

It wasn't the whole 'newbie' thing that caused the uproar. There are a lot of wonderful photographers out there who are members of the forum but hardly post at all. However, reputation is important.

I would probably accept Steve McCurry's critique even though he only has one post here and beg for more punishment. That's because he's established himself both online and offline.

However, critique from those clearly not qualified does bother me. And the way I qualify the critic's critique is by seeing his own output (the proof is in the pudding).

So as far as this particular forum is concerned, don't let the incident sway you from saying what you think. But remember that people may not take any credence in it. Show us why we should pay any heed to your words (whatever they may be).

Interesting question. IMV, unless the mods/owners state their preferred bias in a public forum, anyone can give his positive/negative critique. Posting your images in a public forum/gallery just invites critique in whatever form they may be. That's the reality. Wanting to hear only positives, I believe is immature, as these are relative to the recipient. Different sensitivities/experiences of the viewer/commentator/recipient, different responses.

Establishing reputation of the commentator is, I believe, irrelevant. For all you know, the artist may be hearing a different drumbeat from the experts. Else, artists would avoid pushing the envelop and creativity would be retarded. Goodbye Van Gogh and Starry Night; no more Sunflowers. Confirmation from "experts" is not needed if you know your worth, IMO.

What is important is for the artist to develop his sense of worth and to be able to separate the grain from the chaff as to what will move his art/craft forward. IMV, the comment on the "other" thread took a lot of sensitivity/maturity to give and should give pause to the artist as to the relevance of the message to his craft. To me his message was, "This is all you have produced; can you make it better/different?" Mind you that this question is also asked of professionals who make photography as a living. Clients always ask for new and better imagery.

Too often, we shoot the messenger of "bad tidings;" it is human nature. Rarely do we listen to the message.

for me, i think the way the critique or message was delivered is what was wrong in this previous instance. there are ways to deliver "bad tidings" in a good way so as the recipient would learn and still not be offended...

Personally, it's ok w/ me for anyone to critique my work. it's about hearing/reading different perspectives. and these can only improve my work. of course, if the critic is clearly unqualified or is simply finding fault, then i disregard it.

warm regards!

Excuse me, may i know what was the "interesting thread"? thanks :)

Who can critique? In this medium, the internet, anybody. Who's qualified? In this medium, the internet, anybody... because there are no set rules.

That's part of the risk one has to take when posting anything online (or even exhibit in galleries or the like). Be ready to face anything. Once it's out there, it's free for everyone to see, love, hate, steal, etc. There will be educated critics and the not-so-educated critics. Now, if one doesn't want to get affected much with near-foul critiques, just read the ones from the good and so-called educated critics. Educated critics meaning... people who give constructive critiques and say it in a proper manner.

But here's my tip, this critiques are here not to dishearten us but to keep us honing our skills and continue enjoying photography. (Uhmmm, even if some people think otherwise.)

Keep on shooting, guys!!!

Interesting question. IMV, unless the mods/owners state their preferred bias in a public forum, anyone can give his positive/negative critique. Posting your images in a public forum/gallery just invites critique in whatever form they may be. That's the reality. Wanting to hear only positives, I believe is immature, as these are relative to the recipient. Different sensitivities/experiences of the viewer/commentator/recipient, different responses.

Establishing reputation of the commentator is, I believe, irrelevant. For all you know, the artist may be hearing a different drumbeat from the experts. Else, artists would avoid pushing the envelop and creativity would be retarded. Goodbye Van Gogh and Starry Night; no more Sunflowers. Confirmation from "experts" is not needed if you know your worth, IMO.

What is important is for the artist to develop his sense of worth and to be able to separate the grain from the chaff as to what will move his art/craft forward. IMV, the comment on the "other" thread took a lot of sensitivity/maturity to give and should give pause to the artist as to the relevance of the message to his craft. To me his message was, "This is all you have produced; can you make it better/different?" Mind you that this question is also asked of professionals who make photography as a living. Clients always ask for new and better imagery.

Too often, we shoot the messenger of "bad tidings;" it is human nature. Rarely do we listen to the message.

These are my sentiments exactly. Everyone here seems to be sensitive about negative comments. If you are, then don't post your pictures in the first place for everyone to see. What I notice in this forum is that whenver there is a negative comment about a photograph, the photographer goes on defense mode and plenty other readers jump on board to defend the photographer. If you post your photos, be prepared to take any negative comments.

I got roasted by the public for making a comment about some photography I saw over one weekend at Rockwell. I thought the photos were "junk" as I had put it and never heard the end of it from others. In reality they were not very good, and you don't have to prove yourself capable of saying those comments as others want to point out here.

I'll tell you something else. Most of the other photos posted here on threads are not beyond the snapshot level. Aren't we all sick and tired of my "Photos from Singapore", or something like, "Check out my Trip to HK"? All boring stuff and yet we get responses from forum members like "great shot Pre!" Everyone wants to be nice and tell the poster how great he or she is when the photos actually suck.

When are we ever going to get a post that says something like this, "Back from Thailand and posting some hardcore Black and White Fine Art Photos from Ayutthaya"?

So I say, if you start a thread with some photos in it, expect to get some criticism. As long as it is constructive and not a personal attack (the post to Parc Cruz was a personal attack) do not get defensive.

To the original starter of this thread, I say don't be scared to make a comment, bad or good even if you feel you are a beginner. I know people who have been photographers for 40 years and their work is awful. You may have a better sense of art than others. So comment I say!

I have images posted at bobbyw's account at pbase, www.pbase.com/bobbyw/gabilo. You may visit and see both the praise (maybe for the place, not for the photography) and the criticism. You can not please everybody all at the same time. Trident's comments made me more aware of that. Each individual has his/her own tastes.

Let me start by posting a photo I took of a Great Egret. I posted it under Nature and Underwater as I cannot post in the Professional Critique Section since I'm not a magazine subscriber. I'd like to subscribe but that's another story. So if you'll just take a moment to view the photo and tell me what you think and let everyone here know your comments, I'd appreciate it. And I'm sure everyone here is anxious to hear about what you have to say. Let's start this ball rolling, shall we?

personally i won't mind if somebody has a negative comment on my pics,,, it's all in the approach,,, i know people who excel in their field that don't give "violent reaction" to other people's work but they give advice on how to do things properly,,, but in the end i think we should respect other people's work, because i think in photography, we satisfy ourselves first,, and it's an added bonus when someone recognize our pics ,, so making harsh opinion on one's work will really pissed the photographer,, peace:)

Anyone could be an art critic...
Here are some inputs for photographers who may want to critic...i gathered this from my files =)


The Art Critiquing Process is a method of organizing the facts and your thoughts about a particular work of art. In some ways it is similar to the Scientific Method used in your science classes. The Art Critiquing Process is broken down into FOUR areas. Each area specifically looks at one section. The FOUR steps are Description, Analysis, Interpretation and Judgment. Each section must be covered in order, beginning with Description. This order helps you to organize your thoughts and to make intelligent and educated statements about a work of art. It is very important that you are familiar with the "Elements of Art" and the "Principles of Design" as they will provide you with the vocabulary and knowledge necessary to critique art intelligently.

Please remember that not all people are going to agree with everything you may say. People bring into the Art Critiquing Process their own sets of stored knowledge and experiences that are unique to them.:)

The Elements Of Art are the building blocks of art creation. They can be analyzed, organized, and manipulated by artists. They are the VISUAL LANGUAGE of art. Each of the Elements is important. When looking at a work of art, see if you can identify which Elements of Art the artist stressed, organized or used to express a message or to create a mood.



Let's start with "Elements of Art"

LINES

How many types of lines can you make? How important are lines to our environment? The artist recognizes the power of the "Line" when he or she creates a work of art. Let's take a more detailed look at "Line" and its impact on our world and the world of art.



COLOR

Many people would argue that the Element of "Color" has the most effect on a work of art. Consider what our world would look like if everything was black, white and shades of gray? The effects of "Color" on humans has been studied many times. Artists have known that "Color" has a powerful effect on their works and on the impressions of the viewers. Let's see what "Color" is and just how it is used in the visual arts.


TEXTURE

An element of art which refers to the surface quality or "feel" of an object, its smoothness, roughness, softness, etc. Textures may be actual or simulated. Actual textures can be felt with the fingers, while simulated textures are suggested by the way the artist has painted certain areas of a picture.


SHAPE

Shapes are everywhere. More common ones are given names such as circle or square. There are an infinite amount of shape possibilities and combinations. Let's see what role "Shape" plays in works of art and just how an artist uses the Element "Shape".




FORM

Forms are often called the "three-dimensional shapes". Unlike flat, two-dimensional areas,Forms are represented as "three-dimensional". The great illustrators and sculptors of the world of art have mastered the Element Form. Let's see how they did it!




SPACE

Often we do not consider Space when we create a work of art. It often just seems to happen. Let's take a look at how Space effects a work of art and just how artists useSpace to create interest in their works.




VALUE

Value refers to the lightness or darkness of a color. It also refers to how artists use other Elements Of Art to create a sense of light or dark.*

To others, this are all trash and boring...more to come (just treat this as your "home study" lesson=)


:)

Let me share/summarize what I remember Thomas Hoving, former director of Metropolitan Museum of Art, said on art appreciation:

1. The bottom line in art appreciation and connoisseurship is saturation and immersion. This involves immersion in all kinds and quality of art until you develop an instinctive sense of the different qualities and nuances. Something like developing muscle memory for your eye.

2. Remain inquisitive when looking at art work. Peel it apart and ask questions why it was done that way, what was the artist trying to say, how did he say it, why did he chose that way and not the other. This will give you a better appreciation of the artist's focus, methods, disposition.

3. See the original if you can, it is vital. The web image does not give it justice due to technology's limitation. However, any picture will keep your eye in tune so keep at it.

While the above is general in nature, I think we can figure out a way how to apply it for photography. Keep looking and seeing. :)

I think anyone can make a critique, whether a newbie photographer or a veteran. One's level of experience is irrelevant when making comments about what a picture says to us. Commenting about technical issues, however, does require a certain amount of expertise. Also, when critiquing someone else's work we should remember to be constructive. That doesn't mean only positive comments, but also negative comments that will actually help the photographer improve his work.
For example "Your pictures suck." versus "The background is distracting and reduces the power of the photograph".

Thanks everyone for your inputs.

Note to myself: If I am willing to dish it, I must be willing to take it! :Grin:

...anyone can give his positive/negative critique. Posting your images in a public forum/gallery just invites critique in whatever form they may be. That's the reality. Wanting to hear only positives, I believe is immature, as these are relative to the recipient. Different sensitivities/experiences of the viewer/commentator/recipient, different responses.

Establishing reputation of the commentator is, I believe, irrelevant. For all you know, the artist may be hearing a different drumbeat from the experts. Else, artists would avoid pushing the envelop and creativity would be retarded. it's as if they're saying only pros have the right to register in certain forum. are they? did i miss something on the board rules? Goodbye Van Gogh and Starry Night; no more Sunflowers. Confirmation from "experts" is not needed if you know your worth, IMO.
remember during the old days artists use brush and paint to make representation of a landscape, portraits, still life, nudes etc. flawlessly done with their own conventions. these are the people who are taught of many principles that lacks the modern day "painters".

...Clients always ask for new and better imagery. and they dont complain to whatever client's demand, considering most of the clients are not photography inclined.

Too often, we shoot the messenger of "bad tidings;" it is human nature. Rarely do we listen to the message.

Who can critique? In this medium, the internet, anybody. Who's qualified? In this medium, the internet, anybody... because there are no set rules. don't you love it people here are so nice and polite. one wrong comment - you're banned!

That's part of the risk one has to take when posting anything online (or even exhibit in galleries or the like). what happen is it's the comment that are being criticised instead of the subject.

...What I notice...photographer goes on defense mode and plenty other readers jump on board to defend the photographer.some will even pm you and giving you threats and warnings to other members! :D silly

...All boring stuff and yet we get responses from forum members like "great shot Pre!" actually that's the safest way than giving nothing at all, because if you don't speak that only means you don't like the work. some are to add their rank in the forum.

... bu.... looking at a work of art, see if you can identify which Elements of Art the artist stressed, organized or used to express a message or to create a mood.



Let's start with "Elements of Art"

LINES
....nizes the power of the "Line" when he....he world of art.

COLOR
... humans has been studie....

TEXTURE
..the fingers, while simulated textures are suggested by the way the artist has painted certain areas of a pict...

SHAPE
...an infinite amount ..."Shape" plays in works of art and just how an artist uses the Element "Shape".

FORM
.... represented as "three-dimensional"....


VALUE
....did you miss RHYTHM, HARMONY, BALANCE?