While typing a response to another thread, I got inspired to write a new one. I was thinking about posting this under a different forum, but I guess this is the only place to discuss printing. Well here goes.

I sense that many of the forum members here are photography newbies. Many have just purchased their first DSLR within the last twelve months. Nothing wrong about this and the fact that there are more photographers now only means that photography grows and improves. My only concern here is that most of these photographers are digital babies, a child of the internet. Many have not seen work from others outside of the internet. I smirk when I see posts here from people asking how to optimize their photos for the photo gallery. I guess that many have never had their work printed.

As part of their education, I believe every photographer should go out of their way and search for good photography in print--and not just through the internet. The print is still the final product. Fortunately, I have had the chance to travel and visit photography galleries. I've seen plenty of prints, and because of this, have truly appreciated photography. I also wish I could have seen more because you can never get enough. What I can tell you is that a good print is very sensual. There's something about a good print that just draws you into the picture. Many times I wish these prints were not framed behind glass at all because you sometimes you lose that sensation. Why do you see Do Not Touch signs in art galleries? Because a well printed image draws you in to touch it.

Approaching your photography with the intention of printing every image is an approach that may be lost with our photographers here. How many photos do we see posted here and these galleries that look oversaturated and over sharpened? How many have poor exposure and noise problems? Ansel Adams' Zone system was all about photographing for a good print. Your photography techniques should be based around how your photos will look printed and not for posting on the internet. I've seen original Adams prints and they are just gorgeous. (I've seen some Irving Penn platinums and nothing against the Adams fan boys, I like them even better). I hope we all take this approach to our photography. At the end of the day, you'll be known for your photography by the way it looks on paper rather than how it looks on the internet.

Hey Rosscapili, I know you will read this thread so back me up on this one. :)

I totally agree with this :) I am one of those "Digital Babies" and eversince i've always viewed pictures through the internet (heck i learned everything through it :) ), yeah they may look nice and beautiful in your 17" but they will look amazing and for some simply breathtaking printed on poster sized print. There's something about the size and the tangibility of a printed image that draws you.

I agree with this too and I'm one of those digital babies too, haha. I do have to admit I'm guilty of touching a few prints in that EPSON gallery in Glorietta... But I'm sure I did not damage them. ::) D

Thing is, I tried to have a few photos printed in Kodak and they turned out bad (Bad color management I guess....) Where would you guys recommend printing services then? Professional galleries?

Wonderful insights Gabby.

Well, its probably one thing we in the visual arts discipline have to educate our viewers, and our selves. Your observations are valid and in fact true, I've seen paintings, photographs exhibited with thumb prints on it due to mishandling or caused by wanderer.

Oh... you can spare me this... I do print my photos at 8 x 10 and 5 x 7. That's why a tad of noise doesn't bother me. Nikon D200 banding doesn't bother me too. Why, because even at 8 x 12 prints, they do not influence the print at all. Unless of course you look at the print 1 inch away from your nose. :D

I do also follow Film printing guide. Such as, if I want a photo to be blown up, I use ISO 100 or 200. ASA 400 in film will not look good blown up because of the grain. So, if I captured an ISO 1600 shot, I will just print it at 3R. :D

Lastly, printing your photos will keep you away from pixel peeping.

i also prefer prints than digital copies,, especially when we were taught how to develop and print our film in my photography workshop last summer... now i don't have access to our darkroom but still i shell out money for these precious prints:D

hehehe can i ask you guys what shop offers the cheapest in making prints:D
8R prints costs me Php60.00 (picture city in gateway):( hehehe masyadong masakit sa bulsa :D

the first thing i did when i got my d200 was to take a handheld shot using a 50mm f/1.8 @ hi iso (equivalent to 3200) of a globe street telephone booth located in a very dark spot. which i then printed out on 5R glossy paper.... and it printed out nicely. no more pixel peeping afterwards.

Printing one's photos is rewarding in itself. The feel of tangible paper is quite different than staring that picture in the monitor. I think each and every digital photographer should not limit themselves to viewing it digitally as Gabriel wrote. While some of you guys opted to print it via the commercial photo processors, printing it personally should be another objective. You really will have total control of the entire workflow. Medyo expensive nga lang considering that first you'll have to invest on a good printer, topnotch original inks and paper, but its really worth it.

In my case, I bought a photoprinter, hP 7960 mainly for its superb b/w but since its only upto A4 size, I'm really planning to get a bigger printer for those bigger sizes.

Its hard to get good quality prints at a reasonable price. Very few photo developing shops even understand ICC profiles, so even with a calibrated monitor the results are not a crisp as it should be sometimes the colors are even way off.

Here in Iloilo there isn't any shop at all that offers their printers ICC profiles (this makes my calibrated monitor totally useless when printing with them). I have no choice but to resort to printing through photo ink printers like Epson or HP to deliver good images, and these are not cheap. I hope in the future photo developing shops start to upgrade their services to accomodate digital printers. You can also get it done with a lot of trial & error when working with a particular photo developing shop until you get the colors right.

Digital photographers who are just starting out and intend to print their work should learn about ICC profiles and also color calibrate their monitors, there are already some photo developing shops in Manila that provide ICC profiles

For some info about ICC profiles and how it is used for digital printing:
http://www.color.org/
http://www.drycreekphoto.com/Learn/profiles.htm

hehehe can i ask you guys what shop offers the cheapest in making prints:D
8R prints costs me Php60.00 (picture city in gateway):( hehehe masyadong masakit sa bulsa :D


I would give Digiprint a try. They use the latest Fuji Frontier machines on Crystal Archive paper. Their prices are also very competitive and they can deliver for you anywhere in the Philippines. I also heard that Digiprint Pro will soon be launching. I will be keeping my eyes out for this because prices are even supposed to be lower for serious photographers. I don't believe you have to be a pro but just an avid photographer. They will also offer other services is what I've been hearing.

I'll post more when I have more information.

Nothing beats seeing a beautiful print. I agree with you. Especially black and whites.
I always edit for output. I am very particular about the highlights and shadows.
My screen gets calibrated and we do a soft proof using the labs icc profile. That way, we are more consistent with one another.

I'm glad to see that this thread received some response. In my opinion, its the print that counts. The print is the final product and everytime we photograph an image, the print is what should be in our head.

For those who posted that they are just new to this (I'm new to digital and learning every day), I would suggest to take some of your favorite pictures and have them printed even by your one hour lab just to see what they look like. If the colors don't match then try to find out why they don't match.

Keep on photographing and printing. Then one day, when you get that perfect image, have a specialist print that image up for you. This is where the last part of the photography art comees into play. I call it the yin yang principle. Every photo has its perfect matching partner in paper and printing process. You need to know how to find it. Experience will eventually be your guide. Some images wil look great printed through a high gloss process on shiny paper. Other prints will talk to you printed on a beautiful textured fine art paper. You will need to experiment, but eventually you will know.

This to me is what photography is all about; pairing the perfect image with the perfect print process.

I agree, in fact photography does not just end after you get your images printed. The way how you'll present the final print output until it's hanged on the wall is still part of photography.

A point well stated Joeffrey. Even matting and framing your print is an art form. Everything all blends together to form the final art piece. Hopefully other readers in this forum have picked up on this thread and if we inspired even just one person to get their photos printed then I consider it to be successful. Don't just shoot and post your photos on the internet everyone, go out there and make some prints!

While I am still online, if anyone wants to know what a beautiful print looks like, you might want to visit this sidewalk Art Fair that happens outside Lumiere restaurant on Makati Ave every once in a while. I stumbled upon some hippie dude in sandals selling some gorgeous Platinum and Palladium prints. You can also find some Van Dyke browns and silver prints there. Some of the prints in this side walk show are very very nice. Much better than many of the stuff I've seen at exhibits.

While I am still online, if anyone wants to know what a beautiful print looks like, you might want to visit this sidewalk Art Fair that happens outside Lumiere restaurant on Makati Ave every once in a while. I stumbled upon some hippie dude in sandals selling some gorgeous Platinum and Palladium prints. You can also find some Van Dyke browns and silver prints there. Some of the prints in this side walk show are very very nice. Much better than many of the stuff I've seen at exhibits.


Are you referring to Julius Clar's Van Dyke? and Allan Razo's Platinum - Palladium prints?- Julius Clar just had a solo show at OWG 2 months ago while Allan Razo is scheduled to open this October. OWG represent them both. I hope they are those hippie dude in sandals because they are the leading exponent this alternative printing process here in the country:)

Sounds like Julius and Allan to me:Grin: Hats off to those guys who still enjoy the challenges of film and the darkroom. May I add Charlie Villanueva to the cast of these "dinasours" ...he is now shooting analog 8x10 view camera and doing his own platinum palladium prints. A round of applause for these guys!!:)

Yeah, they're the one's :D

They had a joint exhibit in the Art Gallery in Megamall early this year, around Feb or March I think.

I just loved the Platinum-Palladium prints of A. Razo that I find myself in the gallery everytime I was in Megamall while their exhibit was on.

R

Are you referring to Julius Clar's Van Dyke? and Allan Razo's Platinum - Palladium prints?- Julius Clar just had a solo show at OWG 2 months ago while Allan Razo is scheduled to open this October. OWG represent them both. I hope they are those hippie dude in sandals because they are the leading exponent this alternative printing process here in the country:)


I don't know these guys but from your reference and from the responses, it seems that the description fits the profile. I believe you have chosen wisely Mr. Capili for these guys to be represented in your gallery. Wouldn't it be great if both of them can join us on this forum? Now that would be educational. Only problem is, are they digital already? Will the moderators allow it? For the sake of photography I think they should. Intense conversations lie ahead.

These guys are purely analog. Charlie however still does weddings in digital (but he says his heart belongs to his 8x10) yes it would be interesting to have them around...who knows, we may actually have some who will be challenged to try analog:Grin:

Maybe, I'm a little different.

I had my own darkroom before I bought my own camera. I love Ansel Adams that's why my eldest's name is Ansel. Print is also my main business so I always sell prints to my client.

But with today's technology, I can settle for digital output. I agree that prints may produce a different experience but I don't consider it better than digital output in all respect. Maybe a pixel or grain to one person is art to another one.

I love the convenience of digital. I can share it a few minutes after I shoot it. I can do it in both color and B&W. I can easily make a slideshow.

I consider digital as another medium. It would be great to have both digital output and print but not necessarily one is better than the other.

Analog photography as morphed into it's own branch of photography. Now comparing digital and analog is like comparing apples to grapes. Totally different. Even your mindset is different when shooting analog. When beginners ask me if they should try analog..especially black and white, i do encourage them. There is still a huge demand from collectors around the world for analog black and white and who knows, it could be something you could totally fall in love with. One of my favorite photographers, Simon Marsden just got knighted in England for his fantastic work with black and white infrared photography.
The benefit that we have nowadays, though is that we can "digitize" the negative and take the image even further. Dodging and burning can now be done in PS. We can achieve so many zones in the zone system in one image that if Ansel Adams were alive he would have a blast! Plus with all the new inkjet papers available...mat, super high gloss, fiber look, there are just so many options.

I think there's another forum venue for traditional darkroom prints and alternative prints- unless the purists will have an open mind and ready to explore the digital challenge. I believe bridging the 2 worlds are possible. If the alternative printer artists are willing to join us why not?. Four years ago, i'm convincing a well known artist who did his prints in etching plates most of the time to switch to digital print. He just brush the idea and told me he still want his hands to get dirty. I showed him the way. Like a dog who went back again and eats his own vomit, he is converted to digital and just recently i mounted his succesfull show of giclee prints!:)

For the past two years, there was a minor revolution in printing papers specifically papers for inkjet printing, offering the same look and feel as traditional fiber-based photographic papers. Companies like Crane & Co.(paper maker of U.S. currency since 1870), Innova, Hahnemuhle and Arches have produced quality papers for digital printing. Crane has museo Silver Rag that offers tonality similar to Platinum, Innova has new paper called "F-Type FibaPrint Gloss Ultra Smooth". Hahnemuhle has Fine Art Pearl that looks like traditional silver gelatine paper. I believe it wont take much time, before they get the print and archival quality of alternative printing. I know only two who are good in digital printmaking here in the Philippines. OWG and Nick. Nick printed my pictures using Crane and Innova. With Nick's very good technical skill in photo printing(color/tonality/exposure adjustment for printing, pixel peeping, and other correction stuff... ), i was really impressed :)

For some art collectors though, they still give more value to the traditional craftmanship that you wont find in digital photography (eto lang siguro di mabibigay ng digital.....)

Thanks to Mr. Gabriel Ang for the appreciation of our prints. Expect more sensual Platinum prints this year, I will be holding a one-man-show and I expect no more than world-class prints in my works. I will post an invitation to this thread. To the younger aspiring photographers in town, one thing I can say for now is, use your God-given talent to produce works that comes from the heart... to your hands. If you can hear me loud and clear, - there's nothing like a handmade print.
yours truly,
allan razo

I for one am a firm believer in printing your own prints and holding it in your hand and handing it to others to look at. Somehow looking at photos on the monitor or sending them via e-mail or sharing them on the internet is so . . . . . temporary, while prints are more permanent.

I've gotten a lot of flak for using a printer with continuous ink system ie generic ink
but whatever, it allows me to print stuff instantaenously without breaking the bank. If I really like it then I'll send it off to a professional developer to print out. There's really nothing like taking a newly printed photo off the printer and looking at it and making up your mind on whether it's good or not.

Joey

I always argue about quality versus quantity.

I have 40 A4 sheets of Canon Fine Art paper and 40 A3 sheets of Canon Fine Art paper in my studio. I've been trying to figure out what to shoot that would be worthy of printing on those sheets of paper.

Have you ever gotten the feeling that your prints aren't worthy of the paper you print them on? LOL!

This is a great thread, Gabriel.

I think prints are the ultimate expression of how one values one's craft.

But I'm still at that point where I'm trying to decide what photo in my archives is worth printing... very much like what Jo said, "Have you ever gotten the feeling that your prints aren't worthy of the paper you print them on?"

Most might think that it's too expensive for one's stuff to be printed on fancy schmancy paper. But you folks have got to realize that it's YOUR STUFF. It rightfully deserves the best treatment available, imo. Otherwise, why did we shoot it in the first place :)

I would give Digiprint a try. They use the latest Fuji Frontier machines on Crystal Archive paper. Their prices are also very competitive and they can deliver for you anywhere in the Philippines. I also heard that Digiprint Pro will soon be launching. I will be keeping my eyes out for this because prices are even supposed to be lower for serious photographers. I don't believe you have to be a pro but just an avid photographer. They will also offer other services is what I've been hearing.

I'll post more when I have more information.
I have a very positive experience with Digiprint.

For the past couple of months, I was shooting lots of night photographs and a sprinkling of landscapes. Ive never intended to blow them up, thinking i would just post them in my website and share them in dpp. then in september, dpp featured some of my photos in their magazine. to see one of my photos printed out large, centerfold, was just frigging sweet! it was enough to really knock me off my socks...i remember just cursing and cursing at bella luce studios that day, amazed at how my photo turned out! it was unforgettable. sweet and sensual right on. :)

from then on, i decided to focus my photography and my post-processing skills for large format printing. it really pushed me to be careful with my exposures and to think ahead for the post processing that my shot will undergo. no more careless compositions (i dont crop since every pixel becomes valuable in a large format print). the final print of the photo will be the lithmus test as to the value of the photograph i have taken.

thanks to digiprint, i was able to print out a number of my shots in large format (10x15). the printing is really stunning. ive since realized also how feeble my photoshop skills are....i was complacent before since ive only prepared my images for the web...no more than 800 pixels across. but to print out your photos at full resolution requires one to be meticulous to the point of obsession. plus having guys like nick tuason and nino carandang examine the prints is a challenge in itself. its like trying to win the approval of some big-ass curator :D

just the same, im glad to have the priveledge of seeing my photos printed out large. Digiprint's service is really commendable and the quality of their printing is just unbelievable! Try having your best shots printed out large. I believe their largest format is 12x18!

its also an experience showing your portfolio of large prints. i got lots of offers for me to sell my shots! :)

@ Jay

Contact Miguel Vecin. He is a member of the forum. He can supply you with the ICC profiles that Digiprint Pro uses so that you can soft proof your images in PS.

Okay talaga ang Digiprint Pro. That's why they are one of my seminar sponsors :D

Since we are on the topic of prints, check this out:

http://www.hahnemuehle.com/index.php?mid=810&lng=us

I am so-o-o-o-o-o-o happy that Canon has decided to have some its inkjet papers manufactured by Hahnemuehle (gotta remember how that is spelled. It ain't phonetic :D).

i miss gabriel ang's threads....

Hi Guys,

This thread is quite old but I'd like to reply and share my story/opinion anyway :).

I have been to digital photography for just 2 years and I'm no pro. For every birthday celebration that I and wife get invited to, I'd always tell her

"Bili tayo ng photo frame (with a photo of course of the celebrant that I personally took), pang regalo natin kay.."

and then she would immediately complain;

"Picture na naman!!! blah.. blah.. blah.. and so on.."

I would just smile and say.. "Bakit, gustong gusto naman nila ah!" :Grin:

Printed photos in a way is more appealing or draw more interest to both the photographer and the people you're taking pictures of. But I believe to photographers, what's more interesting and enjoyable is the whole process of producing quality prints. I am not a rich a kid but I would like to invest on a good wide format printer and try to produce high quality photos and maybe make money out of it starting with my friends.

I remembered and cannot agree more with Ross Capili when he said in the workshop he conducted here in Abu Dhabi 2008.. "Photography is for Printing. Photography is not Multiply, Friendster, etc.."

Regards,