How do you deal with White Balance settings in fluorescent lighting?

I have personally had inconsistent results when trying to get the white balance 'correct' (white as white) when I have to shoot in fluorescent lighting. Sometimes Auto White Balance does the trick fine. Other times I found that AWB gets it wrong, so I PREset the white balance on a thick piece of white material. BUT, even PREset doesn't work all the time, since I've also been situation where I try to PREset the white balance and it comes out very wrong (very blue) most times and works right maybe once. I use a Nikon D50 mainly.

Personally, I end up blasting the scene with a speedlight so that I can go with Flash WB instead, or else I have to deal with the ugly business of correcting any color cast in post.

I don't take much stock in Ken Rockwell's thoughts, but this is what I found on a Google search and it seems to jive with what I've experienced:

Beware: if you're shooting under fluorescent or metal halide lighting you'll probably get inconsistent exposures and colors no matter how hard you try. This is because these lights flicker in both brightness and color at 120 Hz in the USA and 100 Hz in Europe so there's no way to set the camera for consistent results at or above 1/250 second. This is because each photo captures only part of a cycle of the light, and you'll never know which part. Our eyes respond similar to a shutter speed of 1/30 second so these lights look OK to us or at slow shutter speeds because their flickering is averaged. To work around this you need to light the whole arena with your own strobes or have the venue install special high frequency ballasts used in motion picture work, or try running three phases of lights from the same fixture. Good luck. Tungsten lights don't have this problem.

From the link: http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/sports.htm

This is annoying, but not impossible to fix, and a good reason to shoot RAW, but I'm finding it to be more and more a common problem. People are starting to replace incandescent bulbs with those "warm" Compact Fluorescent Lights that both save energy AND throw off white balance. :RedEye:

Any thoughts would be appreciated!

I have the same problem...

Just shoot RAW. :D

Just shoot RAW. :D

right you are:)

i experienced that too using my brothers D70, so theyre right, its best to shoot raw then adjust in Camera RAW or Nikon View or nikon capture..
Another is using a neutral grey card and adjust manually in your camera, which im not an expert of, but maybe the others can enlighten us on this..:)

Well, not just a grey card. For strobes, I always use custom white balance. I use white bond paper or the white dress of the model. Then the WB will be consistent. Read your camera's manual on how to set Custom WB .

But the probelm lies when the subject is not lighted by strobes, but by a simple Flourescent Light which flickers, 60 cycle per second or 60Hz. Thus, the color temp will not be constant. So, eventhough you are using a custom WB, it will not be consistent due to the characteristic of the light, which is not constant. Flickering nga eh. :D

But there's one solution, do not use high shutter speed. But then again it may not be possible specially whe you are not shooting still life.

Another one is to use high quality electronic ballast which frequency is higher.

But then again, this is for studio setup. But what if it is a regular room?

By now you will agree with me, I think, you have no choice but to shoot using RAW and just set the WB to auto since you will be correcting it on PP. There is a caveat still, you can't batch process all photos taken under flourescent light. You guessed it, because the light is not consistent that some group of photo taken in a session may require different WB settings than that of the other group. Tedious eh?

:Grin:

i experienced that too using my brothers D70, so theyre right, its best to shoot raw then adjust in Camera RAW or Nikon View or nikon capture..
Another is using a neutral grey card and adjust manually in your camera, which im not an expert of, but maybe the others can enlighten us on this..:)

Or you can shoot under flourescent white balance and gel your flash accordingly. At least the color discrepancy won't be really that big. Alternatively, you can use flourescent "color" creatively in your composition.

BTW Gerry, you'll really have problems with WB under flourescent by shooting film with a cap over your lens. Tapos naka sunglasses pa.... ;)

Or you can shoot under flourescent white balance and gel your flash accordingly. At least the color discrepancy won't be really that big. Alternatively, you can use flourescent "color" creatively in your composition.

BTW Gerry, you'll really have problems with WB under flourescent by shooting film with a cap over your lens. Tapos naka sunglasses pa.... ;)

I really need to look into those gels as suggested in the mixed lighting thread, but at times I like to shoot without flash. I guess I should just avoid shooting under fluorescent lighting.

BTW, you mean the Expodisc doesn't look exactly like a lens cap?? The camera salesman that sold me my multicoated circular polarizer sunglasses assured me it did! :D

@gerry

"avoid shooting under fluorescent lighting"

how about those fiestas... those kitchen snapshots... the snapshots of the everyday life... hhahahahaha... pinoy's love fluorescent lighting!

btw, the white balance of the D200 is fantastic... I may not need to get an expodisc anymore...

Sorry to burst your bubble Dindin.

Even the precission of Custom WB settings is not fool proof under ordinary Flourescent lamp. What more the Auto WB. I agree that the D200's AWB is better than D70 but it will still be fooled under this lighting condition.

The get-away are:

1. Shoot with shutter speed 1/60 or below. (to sync with the duty cycle of the lamp.)
2. Shoot with flash and set WB to Flash.
3. Shoot RAW, never mind the WB, just PP later.

And I stand by your side on the issue that it is not possible to avoid shooting under Flourescent lighting. :D

@gerry

"avoid shooting under fluorescent lighting"

how about those fiestas... those kitchen snapshots... the snapshots of the everyday life... hhahahahaha... pinoy's love fluorescent lighting!

btw, the white balance of the D200 is fantastic... I may not need to get an expodisc anymore...

Yeah, what I meant was, I will probably use flash more when I need 'correct' colors when shooting in an environment with fluorescent lamps. I'm going to need a few more Speedlights. ;) I'm thinking of paid shoots where maybe the client demands that the colors have to be absolutely correct.

If it's just for me, a little color cast shouldn't get in the way of getting a must-take photo. There's always RAW and postprocessing. :)

It is true that results are unpredictable - this is especially true if you are exposing using one fluorescent lamp only. You will get more consistent results (exposure) if you shoot with a shutter speed of 1/30 second or preferably longer.

In aggregate fluorescent lighting setting such as office interiors, the effect of flickering "becomes" less of a problem, if not negligible, due to the large number of fluorescent tubes illuminating the place at the same time. But the inconsistency is more pronounced when photographing inside a 'residential type' room lit by a single fluorescent lamp, which is usually the case.

The output of a fluorescent lamp increases steadily in the first 10 minutes. the color also changes during the initial period it's lit. After that, thou it flickers and still changes color, it is "relatively" stable.

As for the color problem, why you can't nail the color temperature/white balance for your camera is simply because fluorescent tubes are coated with fluorescent materials of different chemical composition that yield light of varying equivalent color temperature.

In other words, the fluorescent lamp is in effect a kind of 'mixed light source' on its own as far as color temperature is concerned. Not like the incandescent "tungsten filament" lamp for example, which has a single color temperature signature depending on the heat applied to produce illumination. The resulting color cast you capture regardless how careful you are in setting the WB will depend on this factor.

Manufacturers quote their lamps in Kelvin color temperatures. This could be misleading since this rating or the value is just a rough guide to the visual appearance of light and therefore not reliable enough to use in setting the WB in degrees Kelvin.

It is worth noting that 'color temperature' is derived from the concept of heating a theoretical 'black body, a cavity that absorbs without reflection, all radiant energy falling on it (such as visible light)'. Of course this is a theoretical model but used as a benchmark. Upon heating this body, it begins to emit a visible light starting at 2000K. The color of the light at that temperature is what you call the color temperature. We are not talking about 'actual' temperature here.

Fluorescent lamps do not produce light via heat not like tungsten bulbs, and therefore have to regard its color temperature based on the visual appearance of the illumination it emits in relation to the theoretical and 'thermal' or heated black body color temperature benchmark.

Thank you Mr. Alonzo for the explanation.

There's no rule that says "Do not photograph under Flourescent light source.", so let's all be shoot. :D

O.T. I like what you did with Meiji, it was my inspiration for portraiture when I was just a baby in digital photography. :D

It is true that results are unpredictable - this is especially true if you are exposing using one fluorescent lamp only. You will get more consistent results (exposure) if you shoot with a shutter speed of 1/30 second or preferably longer.

In aggregate fluorescent lighting setting such as office interiors, the effect of flickering "becomes" less of a problem, if not negligible, due to the large number of fluorescent tubes illuminating the place at the same time. But the inconsistency is more pronounced when photographing inside a 'residential type' room lit by a single fluorescent lamp, which is usually the case.

The output of a fluorescent lamp increases steadily in the first 10 minutes. the color also changes during the initial period it's lit. After that, thou it flickers and still changes color, it is "relatively" stable.

As for the color problem, why you can't nail the color temperature/white balance for your camera is simply because fluorescent tubes are coated with fluorescent materials of different chemical composition that yield light of varying equivalent color temperature.

In other words, the fluorescent lamp is in effect a kind of 'mixed light source' on its own as far as color temperature is concerned. Not like the incandescent "tungsten filament" lamp for example, which has a single color temperature signature depending on the heat applied to produce illumination. The resulting color cast you capture regardless how careful you are in setting the WB will depend on this factor.

Manufacturers quote their lamps in Kelvin color temperatures. This could be misleading since this rating or the value is just a rough guide to the visual appearance of light and therefore not reliable enough to use in setting the WB in degrees Kelvin.

It is worth noting that 'color temperature' is derived from the concept of heating a theoretical 'black body, a cavity that absorbs without reflection, all radiant energy falling on it (such as visible light)'. Of course this is a theoretical model but used as a benchmark. Upon heating this body, it begins to emit a visible light starting at 2000K. The color of the light at that temperature is what you call the color temperature. We are not talking about 'actual' temperature here.

Fluorescent lamps do not produce light via heat not like tungsten bulbs, and therefore you have to regard its color composition as equivalent to that of the black body at a given temperature only based on the visual appearance of the illumination it emits.

@Jay

Thank you for a very detailed explanation. :)

Hmmm...I wonder where you got to see the Meiji shot...at the exhibit? thanks and nice to know it inspired you :)

Thank you Mr. Alonzo for the explanation.

O.T. I like what you did with Meiji, it was my inspiration for portraiture when I was just a baby in digital photography. :D

Re: White Balance

Would an FLD filter help resolve WB issue(s) when shooting in a fluorescent-lighted hall(with or without a flash)?

Shooting in RAW is out of the question.

Subject:

Re: White Balance

Would an FLD filter help resolve WB issue(s) when shooting in a fluorescent-lighted hall(with or without a flash)?

Shooting in RAW is out of the question.

Subject: People in a party
Camera: Nikon D40x DSLR
Filter: Quantaray FLD

Your input will be highly appreciated.

benrose

Ben: You have to consider two things... One would be the ambient WB, the second would be balancing the (usual) daylight flash color temp to fluorescent... Digital SLR's WB adjustment feature pretty much negates the need to use screw-on filters for ambient white balance, you just need to know how to use custom WB effectively in your camera. As for the flash, just add a green gel.

Ben: You have to consider two things... One would be the ambient WB, the second would be balancing the (usual) daylight flash color temp to fluorescent... Digital SLR's WB adjustment feature pretty much negates the need to use screw-on filters for ambient white balance, you just need to know how to use custom WB effectively in your camera. As for the flash, just add a green gel.

Mr. David Tong: - Thank you so much for your advice. I was not satisfied with the Auto WB and I avoid using the Preset (Fluorescent). I'll try using the Custom WB if the subject(s) are in the same position/location. If they shift too often, I might use the Flash WB. I appreciate your input in this regard.

benrose

Try using the Kelvin temperature instead... Most CFL or fluorescent tubes are rated between 3000-5000K depending on how close to daylight they are, so play around those figures and then stick to it.

For example, in my living room, our fluorescent tube is pretty close to daylight (5000K) and it makes it very easy to just set my cam's WB to "Daylight" and leave the flash as is (no gel) as the flash's temp approximates daylight as well.

You might wanna check this out as well (http://reviews.davidleetong.com/?p=166) :)

Try using the Kelvin temperature instead... Most CFL or fluorescent tubes are rated between 3000-5000K depending on how close to daylight they are, so play around those figures and then stick to it.

For example, in my living room, our fluorescent tube is pretty close to daylight (5000K) and it makes it very easy to just set my cam's WB to "Daylight" and leave the flash as is (no gel) as the flash's temp approximates daylight as well.

You might wanna check this out as well (http://reviews.davidleetong.com/?p=166) :)


Thanks again for the additional info.

I apologize for this belated post. I have returned from the Philippines just a few hours ago.

benrose