Here's one thing I wish I found when I first started out as a working photographer... it's the answer to an age-old question I kept asking which no other photographers would give me a straight answer to... the same photographers who would later chid me when the rates I finally gave out were considered too low... so.. How do I price my work?

After looking around I found the Cost of Doing Business manual (http://www.burnsautoparts.com/BAPsite/Manuals_files/CODB.pdf) that helped me to better understand the business of what I was thrown into.

Basically, you add up the cost of your gear, bills, rental, salaries, and other overhead costs/investments and then divide that by the estimated number of days you actually expect to be shooting. The resulting figure is your cost of doing business (CODB) That would give you a guide on how much you need per shooting day to stay clear of the red.

Remember... the resulting figure is a guide of your operation costs for one shooting day. It is not the figure you charge to your client. Experience, expertise, skill, difficulty, risks, usage rates, and other factors lke production costs (transportation, salaries of assistants, etc.. basically your other expenses for the shoot) will play on how much the final rate will be for that project. But anything lower then your CODB will mean you should take your business elsewhere.

The COBD manual plus other guides on the business of photography can be found on the author's website:

http://www.burnsautoparts.com (http://www.burnsautoparts.com/)

The NUJ London Freelance organization (http://www.londonfreelance.org/) offers a downloadable day rate calculator (http://www.londonfreelance.org/feesguide/PhCalc.html) which is somewhat similar.

A lot of photographers have been saying that everyone should have a standard rate. Though it might be better if we could have a quide for photography usage instead.

These are price guides available to photographers for usage of photos based on size of print, duration, circulation, where it is to be published, and so on.

Check this website for example with calculators for Advertising, Editorial, and Corporate use:

http://photographersindex.com/stockprice.htm (http://photographersindex.com/stockprice.htm)

Now where does usage come into play?

PHOTOGRAPHY RATE + PRODUCTION COSTS + USAGE = COST OF PHOTOGRAPHYAnd for weddings and other special events

PHOTOGRAPHY RATE + PRODUCTION COSTS + PRINTS, ALBUMS, etc... = COST OF PACKAGE
The problem with usage is not many of your clients will accept having to pay for usage so sometimes you should add it in to your rate instead. Getting a client to pay for re-use of the photos they paid you to do is alot harder. If anyone can give tips on that please post it here!

Well, just my 2¢... but I hope it helps.

thanks for the link... it's now making me wonder why i charge so low. hahahahah

very informative indeed.. thanks for sharing, Eisen...

Well, a lot of photographers charge low mainly because they just have no idea what to do and many pros just won't tell them... probably because they don't have any idea either :D

But charging low just so to get "ahead" of the competition will actually make you lose in the long run...

"HEY LOWBALLER! Let's see you keep your clients happy with that broken down camera you can't afford to repair or replace!" :Angry:

When dealing with clients you have to present to them that your rate is basically what it costs to produce a shoot. Many clients just see it as hiring a person for a day's work... "Why am I paying this guy xx,xxx pesos for a one day job when I only get xx,xxx a month?" They don't see that they're also... in a way... renting for a day's use of a 70,000~100,000+ peso camera, lenses, lighting gear, and other stuff.

Wow, the calculator seems a bit too tedious to do but once you get the hang of it, it certainly puts things in a certain perspective. The Manual is a good read too!

I made my own based on the two giving allowance for a camera turnover every two years, while lenses and lighting gear every one year. I also calculated using estimated number of whole day and half day shoots per month. Just PM me and I can email you the exel sheet I made.

is there such thing as standard rate?

Very informative, I can now calculate how to at least get a breakeven to my investments. Thanks bro.:)

is there such thing as standard rate?

No, there is no such thing as a standard rate.

This is because photographers have different skills, styles, equipment, software, facilities, staff, investments, cameras, clients or customers, assignments, services, fixed costs, variable costs, mark ups, efficiencies, accounting, pricing systems, taxes, etc.

In addition, they also have different perceptions of how much they are worth, and different abilities to negotiate the best rates for themselves.

Having said that, however, it is possible to have pricing guidelines. It could either come from a photographer’s effort to know where he is in the scheme of things to arrive at his own pricing, or without doing a lot of computations to find a close enough role model after whom he can pattern his pricing, at least, until such time as he can do his own.

It could also come from the efforts of a group of photographers to make a survey of what pricing is out there in the market place, and to collate the information to get the highs, lows and different averages. Such pricing survey should provide background information on the studios and photographers, and to find a way to sort and classify them (specializations, facilities etc.) so as to make the numbers in the price surveys more meaningful.

This collective survey requires not only a lot of work, but also willingness on the part of the participating photographers to trust each other with the data that they are sharing.

If we cannot have a standard rate, can we have a "minimum rate" instead? :)

Well, the "minimum" depends on you. Take for example your basic camera with kit lens and memory card. Basically say everything was 60,000 pesos and warranty is 1 year. So that means you better get your return of investment (ROI) in one year so afterwards you'll have enough funds to cover you incase that camera breaks down.

Now estimate how many days in a month you expect to be shooting... say 8 days.

So 8 days a month means 96 days of the year you expect to be earning money.

So 60,000 divided by 96 days is 625 pesos. So you'll have to charge 625 pesos or higher to reach that ROI. But that's just your camera... you need to eat too. How much is your cost of living? Maybe 10,000 would be a good monthly salary to start off with (give yourself a raise later when things are looking up)... so 61,000 divided by 96 means 635.42 pesos is the lowest you can go. But what good is a digital camera if you don't have a computer? Add that in... Same with phone bills (you need someway to let your clients know you're there), transportation, office supplies (ink and paper so you can bill your clients)... representation and marketing allowance (so you can find and woo clients)... everything you spend on to stay in business... and in the land of the living!

Everything soon adds up and after the math is done the resulting figure is your minimum rate. The last line... The last straw... The cost of doing business... Anything lower then that and you might as well do the job for free and stick with your day job. But be sure to add a bit so have some profit... you need something to help you grow.

If anyone would like a copy of the excel sheet I made PM me your email add.

If we cannot have a standard rate, can we have a "minimum rate" instead? :)

Even that is difficult, because profitability levels vary from photographer to photographer. One photographer's minimum might be considered by another photographer as being "high." And even the minimum might be reduced by other factors - volume work (as in catalog photography), for example. Given so many cost variables, and the great number of photographers, it might be difficult or impossible to reach an agreement on pricing, even on minimum rates.

However, if we are serious about making a survey of current pricing, we can start with a free flow of information on pricing among photographers of SIMILAR SPECIALIZATIONS, so that we could all have an idea of what is going on - without setting a minimum or maximum. Let's start by finding out who is willing to share information on pricing.

What we should share should be actual recent projects (awarded, finished). In other words - a reality-based sharing. One of the reasons why this sharing has not prospered is because it means sharing information with our closest competitors, and unfortunately, not too many are willing to do that.

I hope I can be a part of that survey.

Harvey,

I'm willing to share my pricing, from a U.S. & Canada perspective, so that there is a gauge when a Philippine-based photogs are bidding for a U.S. and Canada project. I see the pricing from 2 angles.... as a freelance photographer myself and as a photo director for an ad agency that is in-charge of outsourcing to other photographers and photo studios.

However, this should be secondary as the Philippine pricing is the immediate and foremost concern.

Anyway, just holler for info if you need it.

Harvey,

I'm willing to share my pricing, from a U.S. & Canada perspective, so that there is a gauge when a Philippine-based photogs are bidding for a U.S. and Canada project. I see the pricing from 2 angles.... as a freelance photographer myself and as a photo director for an ad agency that is in-charge of outsourcing to other photographers and photo studios.

However, this should be secondary as the Philippine pricing is the immediate and foremost concern.

Anyway, just holler for info if you need it.

Thanks, Nick. Maybe we should form a list of those who are willing to share the prices that they have been charging. Anyone who joins will be given the results of the survey. The survey results will not name any photographer or studio, but will include same details on equipment and facilities. Although there may be details that could be dead giveaways for a few studios, especially those on the top-end, most photographers will remain anonymous. Only those who will participate will receive copies of the survey results. Anyone who is interested, please sign up. I will need help in tabulating results so we can make sense of the different responses, as well as formulating a questionnaire about photographer's equipment and facilities. Kindly indicate your specializations - wedding, advertising, portrait studio, editorial photography, etc. Please copy and paste the list so we see the complete list as we go along.
1. Harvey Chua - advertising
2.

1. Harvey Chua - advertising
2. Eisen Job Alquiza - commercial photography and events

I think this needs a new thread though...

3. Marc Claro - Wedding and Event Photographer. marc950077@yahoo.com

tnx for the info...

thank you so much sen for the info!

very good timing when we are just about to start marketing & promotions and your post just made us revise ALL our computations.

@Harvey
i'm curious where this will lead and will "gladly" share my pricing. im one of those who opposed people suggesting a photography price monopoly.

4. joel olivares - digital art, travel, culture & heritage, and everything else under the sun (wedding, advertising, portrait, studio, editorial, etc.)

:)

Kindly keep the list, and just add your names to the previously listed names. this procedure will make it easier for us to see the final list, rather than going over all the previous posts to gather names.

To the moderators: Do you think we need to start a new thread for the list of photographers who are interested to participate in the Pricing Survey or should we keep it in this thread?

3. Marc Claro - Wedding and Event Photographer. marc950077@yahoo.com

I just emailed the excel file to you.


thank you so much sen for the info!...

hey joel! we still have to get together so I can learn from you about selling prints :)

So 60,000 divided by 96 days is 625 pesos. So you'll have to charge 625 pesos or higher to reach that ROI. But that's just your camera... you need to eat too. How much is your cost of living? Maybe 10,000 would be a good monthly salary to start off with (give yourself a raise later when things are looking up)... so 61,000 divided by 96 means 635.42 pesos is the lowest you can go. But what good is a digital camera if you don't have a computer? Add that in... Same with phone bills (you need someway to let your clients know you're there), transportation, office supplies (ink and paper so you can bill your clients)... representation and marketing allowance (so you can find and woo clients)... everything you spend on to stay in business... and in the land of the living!



I think what you meant was 10,000 x 12 months = 120,000 + 60,000 (camera) = 180,000

180,000/96 = 1,875 / day

yup... thanks... missed that. good call!

4. benjie ordoñez - commercial photography

Let'c continue the list guys : )

1. Harvey Chua - advertising
2. Eisen Job Alquiza - commercial photography and events
3. Marc Claro - Wedding and Event Photographer.
4. joel olivares - digital art, travel, culture & heritage
5. benjie ordoñez - commercial photography
6. Ronnel Cuison - Food/advertising/events/architecture

I cut-and-pasted the reason for this list. Please include this portion when you add your name to the list.

"However, if we are serious about making a survey of current pricing, we can start with a free flow of information on pricing among photographers of SIMILAR SPECIALIZATIONS, so that we could all have an idea of what is going on - without setting a minimum or maximum. Let's start by finding out who is willing to share information on pricing."

1. Harvey Chua - advertising
2. Eisen Job Alquiza - commercial photography and events
3. Marc Claro - Wedding and Event Photographer.
4. joel olivares - digital art, travel, culture & heritage
5. benjie ordoñez - commercial photography
6. Ronnel Cuison - Food/advertising/events/architecture

1. Harvey Chua - advertising
2. Eisen Job Alquiza - commercial photography and events
3. Marc Claro - Wedding and Event Photographer.
4. joel olivares - digital art, travel, culture & heritage
5. benjie ordoñez - commercial photography
6. Ronnel Cuison - Food/advertising/events/architecture
7. Ems Chua - Wedding and Events, Portraiture and Fashion Portfolios, would want info into food photography aswell.

"However, if we are serious about making a survey of current pricing, we can start with a free flow of information on pricing among photographers of SIMILAR SPECIALIZATIONS, so that we could all have an idea of what is going on - without setting a minimum or maximum. Let's start by finding out who is willing to share information on pricing."

1. Harvey Chua - advertising
2. Eisen Job Alquiza - commercial photography and events
3. Marc Claro - Wedding and Event Photographer.
4. joel olivares - digital art, travel, culture & heritage
5. benjie ordoñez - commercial photography
6. Ronnel Cuison - Food/advertising/events/architecture
7. Ems Chua - Wedding and Events, Portraiture and Fashion Portfolios, would want info into food photography aswell
8. Jon-Jone Javier - Events & Wedding Photographer

"However, if we are serious about making a survey of current pricing, we can start with a free flow of information on pricing among photographers of SIMILAR SPECIALIZATIONS, so that we could all have an idea of what is going on - without setting a minimum or maximum. Let's start by finding out who is willing to share information on pricing."

1. Harvey Chua - advertising
2. Eisen Job Alquiza - commercial photography and events
3. Marc Claro - Wedding and Event Photographer.
4. joel olivares - digital art, travel, culture & heritage
5. benjie ordoñez - commercial photography
6. Ronnel Cuison - Food/advertising/events/architecture
7. Ems Chua - Wedding and Events, Portraiture and Fashion Portfolios, would want info into food photography aswell
8. Jon-Jone Javier - Events & Wedding Photographer
9. Nick Espino - advertising (U.S. and Canada)

"However, if we are serious about making a survey of current pricing, we can start with a free flow of information on pricing among photographers of SIMILAR SPECIALIZATIONS, so that we could all have an idea of what is going on - without setting a minimum or maximum. Let's start by finding out who is willing to share information on pricing."

1. Harvey Chua - advertising
2. Eisen Job Alquiza - commercial photography and events
3. Marc Claro - Wedding and Event Photographer.
4. joel olivares - digital art, travel, culture & heritage
5. benjie ordoñez - commercial photography
6. Ronnel Cuison - Food/advertising/events/architecture
7. Ems Chua - Wedding and Events, Portraiture and Fashion Portfolios, would want info into food photography aswell
8. Jon-Jone Javier - Events & Wedding Photographer
9. Nick Espino - advertising (U.S. and Canada)
10: Jeffrey Arrogante - Portraiture, Wedding & Events