Hi, I am graphic artist and I have eaten by a bug called photography and thinking of quitting my job and make a career out of photography, any one in the same dilemma?

Hi, I am graphic artist and I have eaten buy a bug called photography and thinking of quitting my job and make a career out of photography, any one in the same dilemma?

Though we share the same passion, I don't have the guts to quit my day job. So, forever a hobby it will be. Until probably I retire....

Hi, I am graphic artist and I have eaten buy a bug called photography and thinking of quitting my job and make a career out of photography, any one in the same dilemma?

Think doubly hard. I do share the same position with Aly:Grin:

will never happen for me

maybe read the story of jake versoza....

rummage his blog www.jakee.blogspot.com for his thoughts on how he did it and where he is now since making the big jump...

jake! forever idolo ko yan! :D

photography will forever be a hobby to me.. i've thought of quiting my job, but not to do professional photography, but to have more time to travel and of course more photo ops. :) as of now this is just a dream, hehe..

Hi, I am graphic artist and I have eaten by a bug called photography and thinking of quitting my job and make a career out of photography, any one in the same dilemma?

My advice to you is don't quit your day job. what ever happens. dude you can always be a photographer. all you need is to make a good time management. :)

Ill probably stay as a hobbyist with as long as I can support it. But Ill be happy with a paid raket once in a while though.

i think a lot of us share this dream. i've actually known some people who made the jump or shall we say, a leap of faith. while i've had some paid photography works here and there, i guess this would remain a hobby. there are a lot of things to consider: the competitive pricing for one, leaves a lot to be desired. and because i work in advertising myself, i know how it feels to be at the receiving end of a client or agency's brunt, hahaha. it's one thing you take captures for your personal pleasure and it's another thing to subject it to a client's judgment/whims/caprices. which is not to say, it can't be done. i agree with jay, one such "success story" is jake versoza, for example. talent, eagerness for learning, a good break, and as john chua is wont to say, "passion, passion and more passion" will go a long way in helping you make the transition.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/oggie

i think a lot of us share this dream. i've actually known some people who made the jump or shall we say, a leap of faith. while i've had some paid photography works here and there, i guess this would remain a hobby. there are a lot of things to consider: the competitive pricing for one, leaves a lot to be desired. and because i work in advertising myself, i know how it feels to be at the receiving end of a client or agency's brunt, hahaha. it's one thing you take captures for your personal pleasure and it's another thing to subject it to a client's judgment/whims/caprices. which is not to say, it can't be done. i agree with jay, one such "success story" is jake versoza, for example. talent, eagerness for learning, a good break, and as john chua is wont to say, "passion, passion and more passion" will go a long way in helping you make the transition.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/oggie

Thanks men...haaay life parang buhay

@oliver: keep dreamin' man. ala namang masama mangarap. who knows...
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/oggie

Same dilemma since I have to decide soon after I graduate this June. Good for you you're a graphic designer

I was in the same dilemma for a few years. Then the company I worked for started going down the drain. After surviving several waves of lay-offs I got news it would soon be my turn as the company would finally be closing down. I started applying in hopes of getting a new job soon as possible. But days turned into weeks and weeks turned into months as nobody wanted to hire me anymore... I'm so sick of that term "over-qualified"!!!! So I started taking on photography jobs to help support my family as I looked around for work.

But after awhile, the photography jobs started coming in as happily satisfied customers would refer me to their friends and I was able to build up a regular client base mainly through word-of-mouth. Later, I didn't have time anymore to look for a new job and have been a full time photographer ever since.

Once in a while I do give a try at landing another day job... but still get the same thing... "over-qualified" ARGH!!!!

Based on my other businesses' experiences, once it becomes a job (especially if you have to shoulder everything), the beauty of a hobby diminishes... For me, at least...

I'm (still) a hobbyist, but I'll never give up on the dream... Only the dead don't dream... :)

Few years ago, I would say go for it!!!!

Now, with the current prices for photography, it doesn't seem to be as good as it use to be. There are also more competition now, there is probably more than 1 like you that actually does quit its job everyday.

Don't presume just because you chanced upon a good paying "RAKET" that you will get such on a regular basis, unlike your day job that no matter if you work alot or work a little, you still get a salary every 15 days.

If you have saved enough money to accept the fact that it will take time before you get enough experience and gain enough client for photography be a source of income, then go for it. Though the time it takes to do such is not fixed, it could be as little as 3 months to even years.

Ken

P.S. Shooting for work and shooting as a hobby is different, in a hobby all there is, is pleasing one self. When shooting for work, even if the picture is enough to please you, it may not please your client.

How can you say if you have more than enough? If you have more than enough to feed yourself & family then why not? Although the competition is tough then you must be challenge to do better. However if your day job is your bread and butter, think twice man.:)

Siguro pag dumating na 'yung panahon na mas malaki na ang kinikita ko sa photography kaysa day job ko. :)

I was in that situation about seven years ago. My career in telecom was starting to pick up that time. I only plan to do weddings about once or twice a month which I'm getting at Year 2000. However, in the late Y2000, I'm getting more inquiries that somehow it's interfering already with my work. I thought I can't do both at the same time - I need to give up one.

After several computations and projection, I can come close to what I'm earning given a certain number of weddings per year. But I'll be giving up the benefits. My wife strongly opposed my decision but still I went on to resign and start to market myelf.

As of today, I'm sure I could be earning more if I stayed with telecom but I'm very happy today. Anyway, my earnings today is still sufficient.

I suggest you go where your passion is. But be sure it still financially viable. If it's your main business, remember that photography is only 20% of the whole process. The remaining 80% is about admin, marketing, operations, etc which you have to deal with whether you like it or not.

Dino

why don't you try first to find a job as a photographer for a company? (saw last night an episode of May Trabaho Ka in QTv as they find a photographer for a certain organization :Grin:)

atleast with this set-up you can enjoy your new passion in photography at the same time can be assured of a monthly income.. this would help you become better as your senior photographer colleagues could give you more lessons in photography.. being employed as a photographer can also give you an advantage once you look for your own clients..

and when the time comes that you feel that you can stand on your own already, thats the time i suggest you quit being a photographer employee :)

I will never do that. The rush you feel is the love for the hobby at the moment. When you start doing jobs, and can get decently paid for it, then more time will be required. If this becomes a predictable institutional activity, then what you can start entertaining if the change in the life style is what you want.

For me. I love the hobby. I've gotten pretty close to getting good jobs. But I refuse the life style. I can't deal with call time, dead lines, rush activities, all these "admin work" keeps me away from calling it a job.

Like what was earlier posted, making more time for travel with my family is more important, and enjoying my photography at the same time. So kayod pa rin ng kayod pambayad ng hobby.

If it's your main business, remember that photography is only 20% of the whole process. The remaining 80% is about admin, marketing, operations, etc which you have to deal with whether you like it or not.

So true... Many people who are into a hobby and decides to make it their day jobs forget the "dirty side" of running a business... While doing your hobby is for profit is nice and fulfilling, failure to treat it as a business first when you're not actually performing the service (in this case, shooting) will only lead to frustration and failure.

Note also that the "lure" might be easier to swallow if you already have the equipment, network and skills needed (photographic equipment, post-processing, contacts to do prints, wedding coordinators, venues, etc.) since your upstart effort will be greatly minimized, especially on hardware if money is tight.

If your own biz can support your family financially and negate the need of "corporate perks" like no work on weekends (for most, anyway), no worries of number crunching (unless you're the corporate accountant/finance person hehe), and most of all [b]medical coverage[b], then go right ahead.

Bottom line is, you have to get into a business for the right reason, that means not only the desire should be there, but so should a solid business plan.

would love to, but my family will kill me!

and as john chua is wont to say, "passion, passion and more passion" will go a long way in helping you make the transition.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/oggie

In addition, I think he said, "Passion first before profit. Mag papasyon ka muna bago ka mag profit!":D

For practical purposes, I would suggest that you build quality clientele first while keeping your day job. When you've built enough good paying clients and build your reputation as a good photographer and understand the business of being on your own and come to the realization that "work photography" is not as fun as "hobby photography" and after a few dozen gigs you've built up the stomach to compromise your creativity in favor of some clients that can't recognize a good image when their lives are defending on it, then maybe you can quit your day job. But these are some of the contingencies that, I believe, to be taken into account before one decides to forego the security of a regular paycheck.

try it out.. like nick said. if things will go your way, and you (still) like the kind of thing you do, while the pay/reward is good enough. then maybe its for you.

photography is like my 5th job since i graduated college and i still enjoy every minute of it..

its already 4am, i just finished editing some images taken 11pm last night for a project and already am looking forward to my shoot later 1pm on board a yacht :)

Go ahead quit your job...you're just making your boss rich. If I were you I'd do designing when i don't have photoshoots. That's what I do. I shoot then design, design then shoot. But if you don't have regular clients it will be hard. Build your clientele then shoot your way to success.

Cheers!

Thanks guys for your great inputs!

I was in the same dilemma for a few years. Then the company I worked for started going down the drain. After surviving several waves of lay-offs I got news it would soon be my turn as the company would finally be closing down. I started applying in hopes of getting a new job soon as possible. But days turned into weeks and weeks turned into months as nobody wanted to hire me anymore... I'm so sick of that term "over-qualified"!!!! So I started taking on photography jobs to help support my family as I looked around for work.

But after awhile, the photography jobs started coming in as happily satisfied customers would refer me to their friends and I was able to build up a regular client base mainly through word-of-mouth. Later, I didn't have time anymore to look for a new job and have been a full time photographer ever since.

Once in a while I do give a try at landing another day job... but still get the same thing... "over-qualified" ARGH!!!!
Same story for me...I jumped ship way back 2003...but i am no longer looking for a day job.....Aside from photography i also have my voice jobs to help me with my finances...One assurance that all my needs will taken care of... I do missionary work with my photography...I shoot for a missions org...As a gospel song says give and it will come back to you... It is always good to pay it forward. We are comfortable and doing just fine. Though i have dreams of entering the advertising market I am just taking it one step at a time...I train under my aunt who is an ad photog while i live as an event photog...I am fortunate enough tobe able to hook up with an events group which keeps me busy by giving we more work and yet give me time to watch my kids grow up.

I will never do that. The rush you feel is the love for the hobby at the moment. When you start doing jobs, and can get decently paid for it, then more time will be required. If this becomes a predictable institutional activity, then what you can start entertaining if the change in the life style is what you want.

For me. I love the hobby. I've gotten pretty close to getting good jobs. But I refuse the life style. I can't deal with call time, dead lines, rush activities, all these "admin work" keeps me away from calling it a job.

Like what was earlier posted, making more time for travel with my family is more important, and enjoying my photography at the same time. So kayod pa rin ng kayod pambayad ng hobby.

I agree Derick :D One thing good about this hobby is you can make some money out of it. It may not be enough to pay for your equipment but at least somehow its compensated.

I love to jump into being a self-employed photogrpher, but I just can't... I'm still no good in the stuff. :(

I've read this from Robert's book and he says that, if the profit from your business is not yet equal to double of your current salary, then do not quit your job.

Remember that as a hobbyist, your picture comes out of whatever you want it to be. Clients are different. They think differently from what you do. You may have pictures that you really are proud off which gives you the right to brag against other photographers but it doesn't mean that your client will like it with the same intensity as you do. :)

at times, it's the art meets commerce or rather art vs. commerce/soft sell vs. hard sell thing. i find many parallels in the advertising industry where i work. rhyan's comment hits it on the head - what you find highly artistic may have to be compromised to fulfill clients' wants. of course, there will be clients who will be more open to creative, more daring, more out-of-the-box ideas. you just have to be prepared to handle those who are not inclined to do so because we all get a fair share of these types. :D
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/oggie

I love to jump into being a self-employed photogrpher, but I just can't... I'm still no good in the stuff. :(

I've read this from Robert's book and he says that, if the profit from your business is not yet equal to double of your current salary, then do not quit your job.

Remember that as a hobbyist, your picture comes out of whatever you want it to be. Clients are different. They think differently from what you do. You may have pictures that you really are proud off which gives you the right to brag against other photographers but it doesn't mean that your client will like it with the same intensity as you do. :)

What is peculiar about photography is that...as a hobby, it is much more expensive. As a profession...it is not because...somehow there is a "return of investment". You are also pressured by your client's wants...and sometimes not for the art of it!!!. As a hobby you do it because, it is your passion, your way of expressing and transalating your imagination..."Art is the freedom of translating your imagination"....

I am not for the MONEY...
Im in it for the HOBBY...
But if you like my WORK...
I will share it to you, for what its WORTH

Good day to all :)

not an expert so just my honest opinion.

if your fond of mulit-tasking do both. you could always market yourself as a photographer, to your family, relatives, friends and your officemates. I agree w/ Mr. Nick, try to market yourself first and start building a network of clients before you quit your day job. Like Mr. Dino, when being a pro-fotog already demands more time and focus on your part or when you feel that you could probably earn more (annually) than what you're geting on your day job then i guess it's time to make that decision.

If your single well I guess it's easier to decide and weigh things, but if you have a family to support then it's up to you how you'll provide for your family.

for me I'm an entrepreneur, going pro is not the end result for me, it would be having my own photo-agency and studio (staff, pro-fotogs, corporate accts, etc a photography related magazine wouldn't hurt either:) ) that way I could spend more time w/ my family while still earning from photography. Hay, for me it's still a dream.

and that's a dream some ppl take for granted, earning from your passion, being paid to do what you love doing.

at times, it's the art meets commerce or rather art vs. commerce/soft sell vs. hard sell thing. i find many parallels in the advertising industry where i work. rhyan's comment hits it on the head - what you find highly artistic may have to be compromised to fulfill clients' wants. of course, there will be clients who will be more open to creative, more daring, more out-of-the-box ideas. you just have to be prepared to handle those who are not inclined to do so because we all get a fair share of these types. :D

Good point. But remember, there will come a point in your career that you've proven yourself enough and clients will start valuing your opinion and will tend to lean towards your recommendations.

Hi Oliver,

You don't have to quit your day job because it is also related to Photography. You can have the best of both worlds and try shooting first on weekends. A lot of DPP members have given you good advise. As what was mentioned in the Photo Congress that I attended, one has to be good also nowadays in post-production work aside from being creative, having the skills and talent. So many things to consider as what Dino Lara said. I like to shoot more but there are times you have to deal with different types of people like corporate accounts that take quite some time to collect due to many reasons like having a new accounting system and red tape. That's why it's best to have a back-up and contingency plan always. Until then. Hope this helps.

thanks mga master

Hmm....quitting my day job. he he... daming cons...the only benefit I can think of is not paying that huge tax every single year anymore.

Hmm....quitting my day job. he he... daming cons...the only benefit I can think of is not paying that huge tax every single year anymore.

We're professional photographers, but we're still paying huge taxes. As the saying goes, "two things you can't avoid - death and taxes."

Hi, I am graphic artist and I have eaten by a bug called photography and thinking of quitting my job and make a career out of photography, any one in the same dilemma?

Would you like to attend a seminar on Saturday, March 24 at Filipinas Heritage Library? John Chua and Jay Alonzo will talk on what it takes to be a professional photographer, while an AIM professor, Louie Cruz, Jr., and I will talk on the business of photography.

http://www.filipinaslibrary.org.ph/library/rooms.asp?id=The%20Alcove#4

Love my job as much as i love photography i think i can't quit anyone of them. Can still do that simultaneously...Having the best of both worlds is more fun!!!:D

a multi-tasker here... :Grin:

i think of this quite often. ever since i graduated 2 years ago, a part of my heart was always into photography. but of course, its no joke. from how i see the business, its either you do well or you dont. the margin for error is so small that sometimes i feel that its better that i remain a hobbyist.

i wish you well in your decision. good luck with your day job and photography!

ok guys tell me if i'm wacko!!

i quit my $90,000/year job in toronto, came back to manila to do photography.

ok guys tell me if i'm wacko!!

i quit my $90,000/year job in toronto, came back to manila to do photography.

I don't know if you are or if you are not until I know - why did you come back? What kind of photography do you do? When did you come back? How are you doing? :)

if i quit my day job, then i won't be able to buy my equipment :( hehe, maybe if my skills grow better in time and my client base grow large enough. i really love arts, including photography. these things keep me sane after an intense week in the IT industry :P

I cannot quit my day job.I love my day job and I have a responsibility to serve our fellow men. This passion of mine is my refuge for boredom and gives me something to look for each day. I did not realize that Im already spending too much money for it....Come to think of it photography is expensive as a hobby than as a profession....because as hobby there is "no return of investment"..you do it for the fun of it. But Im happy and contented..makes my world more colorful and meaningful. I just wish I should have done this B4 when I was still young..well as they say." better late than never":)

I don't know if you are or if you are not until I know - why did you come back? What kind of photography do you do? When did you come back? How are you doing? :)


came back to do what i ws doing in toronto- portrait photography been here two and a half months. what could be considered doing ok in terms of financial returns for that length of time? thanks harvey.

came back to do what i ws doing in toronto- portrait photography been here two and a half months. what could be considered doing ok in terms of financial returns for that length of time? thanks harvey.

In terms of financial returns, as long as you are earning more than what you are spending, and I guess if that spread or difference is good enough for you.:) Only you can define that.

thanks harvey- but what i would appreciate now is your own honest read on the state of affairs of the business of portrait photography in the country (children, family, glamour, institutional) as compared to north america, specifically canada. would you be able to tell me my best demographics keeping in mind that i would be dealing with 50 million more people (yes, i intend to go national) than i was dealing with in canada. as the known authority on the business can you tell me, again, your own honest read on the buying habits of the filipino with regards to what i intend to pursue. when i arrived in the country, i did not waste time, went around different studios, photographers, labs, business school professors and ask them what i am asking you now. their opinions/comments ranged from positive to downright dishearthening. one very well-known lab-owner even flat-out told me to better go back to canada because according to him, i will be facing a wall of a totally different culture, portrait photography-wise. i said, "well, kfc and macdonalds didn't, in their wildest imagination, think that they will be offering arroz caldo and rice, did they? i am willing to adjust. i am really lucky for bumping into your very intelligent and honest comments in this forum. hope you could shed more light for me. thanks again.

thanks harvey- but what i would appreciate now is your own honest read on the state of affairs of the business of portrait photography in the country (children, family, glamour, institutional) as compared to north america, specifically canada.

Hi Basil. As far as my business expertise is concerned, it is limited to our field - advertising photography - so I don't think I can venture into giving you a business outlook in the area of portrait photography, much less compare these outlooks between the Philippines and North America.

But let me share this with you. I don't remember where I heard this but someone said a shoe salesman went to a village and saw that no one was wearing any shoes. Disappointed, he announced that there was no market there. His mentor (or manager), on the other hand, was very excited, as he looked at every person in that village as a potential customer. Virgin territory, so to speak.

Hope this helps.:)
Harvey

P.S. The only thing I know about photography in Canada is what my photographer-friend in Saskatoon tells me, plus what I hear from a son of a friend (a Canadian) who is working as a photographer's assistant in Toronto. I know another Filipino-Canadian photographer in Vancouver but he's into stock photography. There is not enough there for me to make any conclusions as to the state of the photography business in Canada. It may not also be fair to you or to the countries you are involved with to make comparisons. If you have decided to come back to the Philippines, my advise is for you to work as if there was no North America to compare the Philippines with. Same way, if you were over there.

:D
just sharing this:

http://web.mac.com/aaronandpatty/iWeb/What%20the%20Duck/Images/WTD129.gif

hi harvey,

again, thanks a million! i really appreciate your unbiased, honest opinion. please let me fill you in on what i used to do before deciding to set up shop here. this may have a direct relation on what i am intending to do:

for the last 30 years, i've worked for the largest portrait photography company in the world, the last 16 as director of photography for the canadian operations. i also did the lecture circuit in north america and designed studios for the major chains-walmart, hudson's bay company, zellers, petsmart, petcetera, petco etc. i was also the director of photography for the canadian operations of glamourshots up until 3 years ago.the scale is
mind-boggling. our photographers bring in almost 18 million dollars a year just taking portraits of cats and dogs. i need not tell you what they gross on people portraits. obscene!

i must confess that it bothered me that i am one of the people who are directly responsible for making the owners filthy rich. in short, matagal na akong gigil na gigil to bring the concept to the philippines. my mind is a big repository of all the ins and outs of the business. i first consulted a grade 1 classmate of mine who is now a very well known economist in the country. he said "JUST DO IT!".

I did some studies and actual testing and all the results are coming back positive. so far.
i am almost convinced that if i follow our marketing procedures and strategies, it might just work. what encourage me are the very cheap labour and cost of materials and like i said 50 million more potential customers. you think my experience alone could sway or change the way people look at family portraits? there were times during my sales sessions that i think i can almost mesmerize people into buying my product. no scam of course- no pressure sales either. but as we say, i've already quit my job and as we say "nakalublub na" the's why i'd like to talk to as many people as possible. thanks again.

ha ha as in duh!!!

:D
just sharing this:

http://web.mac.com/aaronandpatty/iWeb/What%20the%20Duck/Images/WTD129.gif

my mind is a big repository of all the ins and outs of the business. i first consulted a grade 1 classmate of mine who is now a very well known economist in the country. he said "JUST DO IT!".

I did some studies and actual testing and all the results are coming back positive. so far.
i am almost convinced that if i follow our marketing procedures and strategies, it might just work.


John and I subscribe to "Just Do It." When we started in 1973, we did not know anyone or anything. We also had no money and very little equipment. Our business knowledge was zero. All we had was John's declaration that photography was all he wanted to do.

At first we wanted to do travel photography, but one inquiry with the leading magazine then and we decided we could not survive on what they were paying. There was a fashion magazine that wanted us to do photography for them, but all they wanted to pay us were GCs (gift certificates). I did not need a business degree to help me reach the conclusion that neither way would help us earn money from photography. We could not go into the more lucrative portrait and wedding photography business because John then was very, very shy (nobody would believe that now). So we went into corporate and advertising photography. He said he did not need to talk to products.

So, you're so way ahead. You have experience, expertise, business models, equipment, determination, capital etc. The only advise I can give you is one that you already know - not everything that works in Canada will work here. It's not the same as saying it won't. Maybe it will. That's for you to find out what works here and what does not.

If you have time to spare and want to visit us, feel free to PM me. We always have coffee and food for fellow photographers. Besides, I'd like to know more about Toronto as my youngest daughter is there at the U of T, taking up her master's in computer science.

Good luck,
Harvey

Basil,

If I may butt in, let's compare some numbers of both countries:

1. Population
2. Minimum wage
3. Disposable income after basic necessities
4. Price of a McDonald's Quarter Pounder Meal (1 burger, 1 small fries, 1 medium drink)
5. Price of a standard (or most popular) portrait package
6. Average lease price per sqm in a popular mall
7. Average lease price per sqm in a stand-alone store (high traffic zone)
8. Cost of electricity per KWH
9. Salary of a photographer
10. Pet ownership ratio (how many pet lovers per 100 people) of Class A segment
11. Pet ownership ratio (how many pet lovers per 100 people) of Class B segment
12. Pet ownership ratio (how many pet lovers per 100 people) of Class C segment
13. Pet ownership ratio (how many pet lovers per 100 people) of Class D segment
14. Pet ownership ratio (how many pet lovers per 100 people) of Class E segment
15. Average monthly budget for pet food, grooming, etc per Class
16. Average GDP per person

The numbers should give you a clearer picture of whether the market dymanics is the same in both countries.

IMHO, I'm inclined to believe that even though we have a population of close to 80M vs Canada's 28M (?), the spending power is much, much less.

At $18M Canadian a year, that's approximately 792M pesos in revenue a year. Let's assume the 300 branches nationwide - that's about as much visibility as Banco de Oro.

792,000,000 / 300 branches / 12 = 220,000 in sales per month per branch

That also translates to roughly 7,333 pesos per day in total sales. If the average Portrait session is 1,000 pesos, that's roughly 8 pets a day, everyday.

In a month, a branch should serve 240 pets. Assumming, a pet owner has the portrait done twice a year, the branch should serve 1,440 pets a year. And given that 300 branches means a smaller geographical reach per branch, and assumming 1 out of 2 families have pets, there should be about 2,880 homes within a stone's thow from the branch.

I'm not sure if these numbers are real, but I'll drop by my suki bank and chat with the manager to find out if they serve, on average, 2,800 personal accounts per branch.

How do the numbers compare in Canada? What's the number of repeat portraits in a year? Is P1,000 the equivalent price of a pet portrait in Canada? Do you have 300 branches at the national level? If I'm not mistaken, having a network of 100 branches will pretty much cover Canada at the national level, and if we use the same number here (30 of them will already be in SM Malls), then we're looking at serving / shooting 720 unique pets per month.

I'll try to get some more numbers and let's see if this'll work here.

hi harvey,

you're on! let me just sort out my sked and will pm you so i could drop by your much-talked-about studio.

so your daughter is at the U of T- a very wise choice! my own daughter went there too and one of my nephews finished his masters in computer science in the same university as well. it's truly one of the very best in the world. i would gladly fill you in my hometown of almost 35 years. i did not really completely leave toronto. i will be splitting my time between manila and my city with my wife connie, who is the director of sales for our company. she used to run he famous zellers portrait studio at quare one in mississauga.

p.s. i was actually briefly introduced to john by letty of fotolam during the opening of the hidalgo photo haven last year but he was too busy directing the activities for a chitchat.

ive been enjoying both of what i have as an architect by day and a photographer by night. as long as i can do both field at the same time theres no problem at all.

oh jerry thank you very much!! i've been meaning to get in touch with you for a very long time now- started with your days at the erstwhile photos ph. you see, you're the one of the few that talked sense. i'm so glad you butted in-i'm so happy!!

i am so overwhelmed by your instantaneous expert stats. i am really impressed! but let me gather myself and explain a few things first:

1. i will never, never in my wildest imagination consider doing pets in the philippines at the same level and intensity as i did in canada and the states given the affinity of many fiipinos to "asucena". i can not compare a country whose people give cards to their pets during christmas to a country that still views violence to an animal as ho-hum. just yesterday i was passing by a street in paranaque and saw a woman douse a caldero of boiling water on a cat wandering by her turo-turo stall. i was horrified. i could not sleep last night seeing the scalded back of the poor kitty and thinking of my own cat sammy in toronto. in canada you could go to jail for years for that.

2. the conventional wisdom, to gross 792 million pesos is to put up 300 branches, purchase 300 sets of equipment, and maybe hire 600 employees/photographers to man the locations then worry about insurance, utilities, maintenance etc. that's the conventional wisdom.

our business model- hire 50 photographers with reliable cars, residing in different states and provinces, give them a set of equipment each (one camera, one light, one lightsatnd, 5 memory cards, 5 backdrops, props, put them in the trunk of their cars. give them intensive training on pet photography, pay them minimum wage plus graduated commision plus mileage and cola. make them service the 2,800 petsmart and other pet stores that are already in existence on a three day sked per week ( two stores per week) 20 sittings per day on a bad day=120 sittings per week per photographer x 70-80 dollars per customer average.aye caramba jerry- please do the math!! he-he-he. and we haven't even touched half of those stores.

3- i remember about 10 or sao years ago, my boss sent me to a petsmart store in yonkers new york and asked me to stand and walk around the store for 3 hours and observe because according to him he's thinking of launching a department in the company solely for pets. i said ho-hum.. i'm going but i really don't think it's gonna fly. and then, in the store, i saw this little old woman in deep conversation with her dog- sanamagan! i said to myself. i called my boss and said "let's do it!",

people photography is my cup of tea and portrait photography customer acquisition is my forte.. i could say without any reservation that i could gather you 1,000 customers in one location for a period of 4 weeks. yes in the philippines! done it a few times. will they buy? yes even at north american prices. i could go on and on and on jerry but at this juncture, it's a case of if i tell you how, i have to kill you. maybe someday when i'm all organized and you're willing to buy me a bottle of sanmig light- because after half a bottle of beer, i start looking for a karaoke mike ha-ha!

ive been enjoying both of what i have as an architect by day and a photographer by night. as long as i can do both field at the same time theres no problem at all.
lucky you cris! you have a fallback both ways. if i flub my photography i am royally screwed-dead meat ika nga.

Wow, Jerry.:) I wish I had your talent and skill for such mathematical analysis. I really mean that.

Woo the veterans and masters sharing their expertise , knowledge and experince... priceless thanks again..

ok guys tell me if i'm wacko!!

i quit my $90,000/year job in toronto, came back to manila to do photography.

Gut instinct tells me that there's more to this story than your love of portrait photography. If that's what you want to pursue, then you can do portrait photography wherever you are, no need to quit your day job even.

Manny Librodo is highly aclaimed worldwide, and he still teaches. In fact, his he gets most of his amazing models from his teaching gig.

Gut instinct tells me that there's more to this story than your love of portrait photography. If that's what you want to pursue, then you can do portrait photography wherever you are, no need to quit your day job even.

Manny Librodo is highly aclaimed worldwide, and he still teaches. In fact, his he gets most of his amazing models from his teaching gig.

hi leonardo,

hhmm.. not really. my day job was portrait photography and i quit it to do portrait photography -only in another place. my concern and my questions revolve around the feasibility of doing it in this country. you see, what i am planning to do is maybe a little bit bigger than what you have in mind that's why i want to feel the pulse of the business as much as i can. if you read the posts above, then you can understand the gist of what i am trying to do. i am lucky to be getting insights from heavyweights like harvey and jerry and even you. THANK YOU VERY MUCH!

as for teaching, you can bet that i will be there too.i have a wealth to share from my 25 years on the lecture circuit all over north america. i am truly amazed at the development of photography in the country since i, with a few other newspaper photographers were forced out of the country in 1972 when a certain president decided that he wants to own the country and its people. it's really fascinating to see kids running around with ultra expensive cameras and those long white lenses and every imaginable photographic accessory. now, if only they would invest some of their money on lessons and books..

yes you're right-i love portrait photography. what else can you call driving 8 hours through a blinding snowstorm to take portraits for the next 8 hours but an insane love for it. i admit it's also out of neccesity- i had three mouths to feed and a huge mortgage to contend with.i could have been an accountant or even a nurse for that matter but i had a dream. i was lucky that i had a father who always told me that "THE QUICKEST WAY TO REALIZE YOUR DREAM IS TO WAKE UP!".

i was lucky that i had a father who always told me that "THE QUICKEST WAY TO REALIZE YOUR DREAM IS TO WAKE UP!".

Hmmm. I like your father already.:D

h heavyweights like harvey and jerry and even you. .

Hmmm. I hope you're not being literal. The older I get, the harder it is for me to lose weight. :D

Hmmm. I hope you're not being literal. The older I get, the harder it is for me to lose weight. :D

hey harvey,

i wasn't but even if it's true-i don't see the big deal! and as they say, that's the beauty of getting old, you don't give a flyin' s__t!

basil hehe true but that only applies to men... :P

Kai: Or some african tribal women hehe.

Kai: Or some african tribal women hehe.

I think I will declare myself an African tribal woman.:D Sorry if we're OT.:)

Harvey: Didn't mean it that way Maam... hehe... Sorry

found this dilemma just before graduation. senior syndrome i guess..work for the suits or pursue further studies for photography.

in the end i decided i will have photography as a serious hobby. the thought of having to subject my photographs to others' desires kind of repelled me from going into the profession.. i'm not closing any doors though. what i really want to be is a director of photography in movies.

if my path takes me there i'm gonna grab it. :D

@sir harvey

i hope this helps.. when we made a feasibility study for our eco class, what i've learned is you need to study the demand of the people.. that is, their willingness to pay..

work on that and see whether you projected profit will outweight your costs..

not sure if it is helpful..
:D

@sir harvey

i hope this helps.. when we made a feasibility study for our eco class, what i've learned is you need to study the demand of the people.. that is, their willingness to pay..

work on that and see whether you projected profit will outweight your costs..

not sure if it is helpful..

:D

but ria! my economics begin when i am behind that camera in front of my subjects... and when i am facing them accross the sales table looking at them straight in the eye. and oh, i was just analyzing what's being discussed here -i hope harvey and jerry are listening. am i right to say that most of the sales being discussed here happen before the fact and mine are after the fact? i like selling them hard copies (8x10's, 11x14's that have been pre-printed- and chosen by myself. products that they can touch. in other words, i'm gambling, speculating but family portraits are the easiest things to sell in this world. and dear, give me snow and i will sell it to an eskimo!

Just like some of the people who posted here already, I made the jump to full time photography last February, after my studio was completed. That's after more than 15 years of doing corporate work for several multinational companies. So, what did I consider? My family.

I began by computing how much I needed for my family not to be affected with my career change, and that meant having enough moolah to spend in the next 6-8 months without an income being generated. When I realized that I have enough, I built my studio and started marketing my services...first to my friends in the corporate world then later on, to the mass market. It was tough, as my portfolio still lacked that oomph to "wow" my prospective clients.

After my first month, I was fortunate to earn enough to pay off my rent and electricity, and still a few pesos to contribute to my household budget. The second month was better and now, on my third month, things seem to be falling into places. I hope it gets better and better and I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

I agree with what someone posted earlier, shooting as a hobby is different from shooting as a profession, but, if you have the passion, then you'll still enjoy it as much as you did when you first had your camera. I just finished shooting for 5 days straight ( whole days ) and can feel some joint pains ( age probably :D ) but I'm not complaining, in fact, I'll be shooting again tomorrow and on Good Friday and I'm excited about it.

Hone your skills in the craft, passion is not enough if you don't have a clear vision of what you want to do. I admire the passion of John Chua, Harvey's husband, and I look up to him as a model. Imagine, after several decades in the business, his passion has not diminished even a bit....what a photographer!

Lastly, pray for wisdom. Confusion between keeping your day job and pursuing a career in photography is not easy to think about and decide on later. Prayers do wonders. :)

Deo P.

but ria! my economics begin when i am behind that camera in front of my subjects... and when i am facing them accross the sales table looking at them straight in the eye. and oh, i was just analyzing what's being discussed here -i hope harvey and jerry are listening. am i right to say that most of the sales being discussed here happen before the fact and mine are after the fact? i like selling them hard copies (8x10's, 11x14's that have been pre-printed- and chosen by myself. products that they can touch. in other words, i'm gambling, speculating but family portraits are the easiest things to sell in this world. and dear, give me snow and i will sell it to an eskimo!

sir..hihi.. i guess photography is first and formost an art.. i still have much to learn in businesses.. i guess the suggestion is a bit pragmatic..

:D

Just like some of the people who posted here already, I made the jump to full time photography last February, after my studio was completed. That's after more than 15 years of doing corporate work for several multinational companies. So, what did I consider? My family.

I began by computing how much I needed for my family not to be affected with my career change, and that meant having enough moolah to spend in the next 6-8 months without an income being generated. When I realized that I have enough, I built my studio and started marketing my services...first to my friends in the corporate world then later on, to the mass market. It was tough, as my portfolio still lacked that oomph to "wow" my prospective clients.

After my first month, I was fortunate to earn enough to pay off my rent and electricity, and still a few pesos to contribute to my household budget. The second month was better and now, on my third month, things seem to be falling into places. I hope it gets better and better and I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

I agree with what someone posted earlier, shooting as a hobby is different from shooting as a profession, but, if you have the passion, then you'll still enjoy it as much as you did when you first had your camera. I just finished shooting for 5 days straight ( whole days ) and can feel some joint pains ( age probably :D ) but I'm not complaining, in fact, I'll be shooting again tomorrow and on Good Friday and I'm excited about it.

Hone your skills in the craft, passion is not enough if you don't have a clear vision of what you want to do. I admire the passion of John Chua, Harvey's husband, and I look up to him as a model. Imagine, after several decades in the business, his passion has not diminished even a bit....what a photographer!

Lastly, pray for wisdom. Confusion between keeping your day job and pursuing a career in photography is not easy to think about and decide on later. Prayers do wonders. :)

Deo P.

thanks deo for sharing your expereince, nothing can beat learning from expereince:) now i am getting enough strenght in making that big jump

Just like some of the people who posted here already, I made the jump to full time photography last February, after my studio was completed. That's after more than 15 years of doing corporate work for several multinational companies. So, what did I consider? My family.

I began by computing how much I needed for my family not to be affected with my career change, and that meant having enough moolah to spend in the next 6-8 months without an income being generated. When I realized that I have enough, I built my studio and started marketing my services...first to my friends in the corporate world then later on, to the mass market. It was tough, as my portfolio still lacked that oomph to "wow" my prospective clients.

After my first month, I was fortunate to earn enough to pay off my rent and electricity, and still a few pesos to contribute to my household budget. The second month was better and now, on my third month, things seem to be falling into places. I hope it gets better and better and I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

I agree with what someone posted earlier, shooting as a hobby is different from shooting as a profession, but, if you have the passion, then you'll still enjoy it as much as you did when you first had your camera. I just finished shooting for 5 days straight ( whole days ) and can feel some joint pains ( age probably :D ) but I'm not complaining, in fact, I'll be shooting again tomorrow and on Good Friday and I'm excited about it.

Hone your skills in the craft, passion is not enough if you don't have a clear vision of what you want to do. I admire the passion of John Chua, Harvey's husband, and I look up to him as a model. Imagine, after several decades in the business, his passion has not diminished even a bit....what a photographer!

Lastly, pray for wisdom. Confusion between keeping your day job and pursuing a career in photography is not easy to think about and decide on later. Prayers do wonders. :)

Deo P.

wow deo! never realized that's the story of memento studio. i admire your decision in life and career. i wish the best for memento! more power to you and memento!

i agree with you. sir john's passion for photography has taken adphoto to new heights! if people are considering to start now with photography as their day job they should have the passion the same as sir john chua. take all challenges and never lose hope. everyone has something to learn new everyday. people should never say that they are good enough, there are always people better. that's the only way you can hone your skills enough to be good enough in the photography business.

I'm not a photographer and don't have a job yet (though im an OJT) and in 4th year college. I want to make photography as a hobby, but, if photography will offer me much more than my stable job in the future, i'll definitely grab that opportunity of quitting may day job! I've been thinking of this a lot of times, wondering how can i make money ( i mean a lot of money) out of photgraphy so it can be a long-standing job for me. Maybe i'll still work in the office, but as a digital artist or making website (some IT stuffs) and that will go along with photography. that's a wonderful job for me because i love what i'm doing and still making a lot of money... Hmmm.... I hope that can happen. :D

Wow. I was thinking of making photography as my main line of work as soon as I have saved up enough money and experience for it. I'm a recent multi-media arts graduate, hoping to apprentice, but it's easiest for me to be a graphic and web designer. I thought about taking up those offers for the mean time, but digital photography is what I really love. I didn't know it was this hard to make that career move...I had no idea a lot of people were in my exact position, having this dilemma. :(

Wow. I was thinking of making photography as my main line of work as soon as I have saved up enough money and experience for it. I'm a recent multi-media arts graduate, hoping to apprentice, but it's easiest for me to be a graphic and web designer. I thought about taking up those offers for the mean time, but digital photography is what I really love. I didn't know it was this hard to make that career move...I had no idea a lot of people were in my exact position, having this dilemma. :(

welcome to the club men :D isa pa nga san miguel bro cheers:Grin:

for me photography as a business ... i'd rather delegate the photography jobs and supervise. mahirap kung ikaw lang parati, pano kung magkasakit ka and you have a very important client who got so attached to you, yun tipong work mo lang gusto niya walang proxy proxy ...

and another case would be: you have two loyal clients who want your service at the same time.

how will you handle these kinds of scenarios ba?

for me photography as a business ... i'd rather delegate the photography jobs and supervise. mahirap kung ikaw lang parati, pano kung magkasakit ka and you have a very important client who got so attached to you, yun tipong work mo lang gusto niya walang proxy proxy ...

and another case would be: you have two loyal clients who want your service at the same time.

how will you handle these kinds of scenarios ba?

kuhanin mo na lang akong proxy sir:)

how i wish i could...

photography for me is a hobby and because of that i really enjoy it...to make it a business will already involve more than shooting...it will mean meeting with clients, attending fairs and exhibits, time management and people management, budgeting, etc...i do all of t those in my day job so why quit my day job to do those things all over again?

Just want to up this thread, it sure is a good read. I learned a lot. :)

Just want to up this thread, it sure is a good read. I learned a lot. :)

This is similar to the other thread "Why are you not a professional photographer" or something to that effect. :)

It's all about choices!:)

This is similar to the other thread "Why are you not a professional photographer" or something to that effect. :)

It's all about choices!:)

It's just so good to read, it's all about experience and it's full of details. :)

We're on the same boat. Graphic artist wanting to be a full time photog. Can't do that yet because I need to learn all the works in the industry before I take the plunge.. Haven't you thought of combining graphic design and photog? (Or doing both as a biz) It's what I'll probably do, a more practical choice I guess since it gives more flexibility. ;)

I guess backing it up with a day Job can make things better. Shoot on Weekends. That's what I learned.
Unless you have a profitable business besides Photography.

why not keeping it both?

graphic design and photography are complementary skills and a business offering both could potentially be better than one that just does one or the other

my day job pays the bills... and then some... :D seriously, its security for me. photography here in mindanao still isn't that big of an industry so i can't just quit. i'll be ranting about my day job for the foreseeable future. :(

my day job pays the bills... and then some... :D seriously, its security for me. photography here in mindanao still isn't that big of an industry so i can't just quit. i'll be ranting about my day job for the foreseeable future. :(

If you have a good day job and you're happy there, especially if it allows you to buy the equipment that you need to play with photography, then you probably don't need to quit your day job to become a professional photographer. For some or many of us, photography became our day (and night) job, and we had to look at other hobbies (such as flying for John) to be our hobby.

In short, and at the end of day, go for what will make you happy and earn well. Photography, like any other career (such as being in I.T., being a doctor or engineer, or a teacher or banker) as a profession, is not for everyone. It's not even a hobby for everyone, although it may just seem like it is nowadays. :)

up for this thread...

i was surprised that this was written way back Y2007... Still a good read for me. Thanks for all the tips, especially to Mam Harvey >> "I think this was written way before you conducted a free seminar about "Photography as a Business"? which I'm blessed to be part of. Thanks Again!

PS. by the way, what happened to oliver & basil? any update? just curious... :D

I was able to had a time off as a College Professor to have a try on full time photography work that specializes on wedding. :)

What I learned so far...

a.)Downtrend on the market of Professional Photography service here in
Mindanao.

b.) A healthy population of DSLR owners offers free or will work for food
service. :(

I'm now having some second thoughts on pursuing this career on a full time basis and might just go back to a healthy day job as a college professor this coming June if things won't work out right.

Photography to me now is a security blanket which keeps my sanity .

b.) A healthy population of DSLR owners offers free or will work for food
service. :(



Isn't that akin to begging? :(

population of DSLR owners offers free or will work for food service. :(


I'm guilty of this. Newbies cannot really charge for their shoots IMO :)

(b.) A healthy population of DSLR owners offers free or will work for food service. :(


I'm guilty of this. Newbies cannot really charge for their shoots IMO :)

Isn't that akin to begging? :(

probably so maam Harvey, I just recently lost a client due to this deal...

I just can't compete to such price, I got bills to pay and a wedding of my own that i still have to save for, or my bride to be will have to get another groom :(

I'm guilty of this. Newbies cannot really charge for their shoots IMO :)

Yes, they can. Sometimes, they just need to believe in themselves.

I'm guilty of this. Newbies cannot really charge for their shoots IMO :)

huh? with all due respect, how did you arrive at that opinion, sir?

maybe a newbie can charge according to his/her expertise. but definitely someone who renders a service has a right to demand payment/compensation.

Doc Marlon Pecjo has given up his career as a Medical Doctor in favor of Photography? is this true?