hi guys, ive been considering a d70s but ive heard so many horror stories on moire....

can anyone please comment on it? I guess the most affected people would be those who shoot architectural subjects?

Although i have seen pictures of moire on birds coz of their feather patterns. it looked coolhehehe

how bad have you experienced moire on a d70s?

thanks

If you are worried about moire in your photos, maybe consider the D50 instead, since the moire issue is better addressed there.

I doubt that it will be better with Nikon D50 as it uses the Anti Alias Filter found in Nikon D70. The weaker the Anti Alias Filter the greater themoire will be, but the sharpeness and resolution will also be increased. Nikon D200 has really addressed this by making the Anti Alias Filter stronger. The resolution was not affected since the pixel count has been increased. But you will notice a decrease in sharpness if you use it with it's factory set sharpness. The solution will be to set the sharpening up on camera (JPG) or post processing (RAW).

As you can see, there is always a work around and some work around will not take drastic moves or changes.

If you are worried about moire in your photos, maybe consider the D50 instead, since the moire issue is better addressed there.

I doubt that it will be better with Nikon D50 as it uses the Anti Alias Filter found in Nikon D70. The weaker the Anti Alias Filter the greater themoire will be, but the sharpeness and resolution will also be increased. Nikon D200 has really addressed this by making the Anti Alias Filter stronger. The resolution was not affected since the pixel count has been increased. But you will notice a decrease in sharpness if you use it with it's factory set sharpness. The solution will be to set the sharpening up on camera (JPG) or post processing (RAW).

As you can see, there is always a work around and some work around will not take drastic moves or changes.

There's been a lot of debate about that but the D50's sensor and anti aliasing are different from the D70/D70s. From DPreview:

When asked Nikon confirmed that the sensor used in the D50 is slightly different to that of the D70 / D70s, they haven't however explain exactly what the differences are. A quick comparison between D50 and D70 images shows similar levels of detail but a very slightly softer (plastic?) appearance to images, this could be down to either the sensor (I suspect a slightly stronger anti-alias filter) and/or a slightly less powerful onboard processor (as we saw in the Pentax *ist DS (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/pentaxistds/); although not to the same degree). We certainly noticed less moire / maze artifacts in D50 images compared to the D70.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond50/page18.asp

i was gonna go for the d50 but i wanted to get a camera where i can grow into via the different manual settings.

i had my sights set on the d70s but i was thinking about the high iso noise and the moire. the iso noise may not be such a big problem but the moire is another story altogether.

the d70 would have been perfect since i cant cough up the 90k for the d200. the closest would then be the 30d from canon but even that has a hefty 70k price tag attached to it.

so have you guys wrestled with moire?

Moire is something you wouldn't hunt to shoot. It's not a fly that you will try to capture for a macro shot.

The D50 will also have this problem. The manufacturer did not claims that the D50 is FREE of moire, did they?

Even the D200 will manifest moire in the extremes. So what will your stand be? Moire is given, you will have to live with that. But since you know what it is and what causes it, you can then work to avoid it.

This is the same with D200 vertical short banding. Yes I get them outside of ISO100 but I can get a shot that is banding FREE regardless of ISO. Why, I know the problem exist, I know what causes it so I know how to avoid, even eliminate it. And most of all, I do not hunt for banding.

There are more potential problems that will surface more often than your concern for Moire. So how will you deal with them?

i was gonna go for the d50 but i wanted to get a camera where i can grow into via the different manual settings.

i had my sights set on the d70s but i was thinking about the high iso noise and the moire. the iso noise may not be such a big problem but the moire is another story altogether.

the d70 would have been perfect since i cant cough up the 90k for the d200. the closest would then be the 30d from canon but even that has a hefty 70k price tag attached to it.

so have you guys wrestled with moire?

im not really hunting for moire i just read the frequency of it coming up using a d70s.

i wouldnt wanna be shooting a kid wearing a shirt that has crazy patterns and then discovering that the shot had moire. In this particular case, the moment simply passed, i cant get the kid to pose the same way again.

im not actually looking for the perfect camera with no noise til 3200 iso and no moire whatsoever, i know they dont exist. I just wanted to ask those who have the d70 or d70s to comment if they have encountered it and how often.

some people may shoot 10,000 pictures before seeing 1 moire but maybe because they have been shooting in the wilds where patterns that result to moire are not encountered (although moire on a bird really does exist i just saw the picture). so im really just asking for the experience of some people here.

@christopher

i've been using a d70 since late 2004 and a d70s since last friday but i haven't encountered moire problems... maybe because i haven't shot a lot of parallel/striped subjects.

my question now is... how much will this moire problem affect your photography? will you be shooting a lot of this type of subjects (moire-prone)?

re: noise in high ISO... i shoot at maximum ISO 800 for the sole reason that i don't like grainy photos... and when i don't have enough light, i just use my flash... in your case, how often will you need to shoot at 1600?

go for the d70s!!! (value for money) and, enjoy shooting!!! welcome to DPP!!!


happy d70/d70s user,
din2

Well, I for one encountered it only once when I shot a bride's face inside her, ermm... what do you call that? more than 10K shutter actuation. That was the only moire I encountered. (I still have my D70.)

I read it somewhere, changing the angle of the shot elimitates it. So if you are worried about this Kid posing for you with crazy patterned clothes, better take many shot.

And I beleive there is a fix existing on post processing.

But then again, I am lost in the detail. You are not asking how to avoid or fix it. You are asking about the frequency of D70/s producing photos with moire, right? Well, I say it depends... if you take 100 shots in an angle and subject that is known to produce moire, then you will get it 100 times. :D

im not really hunting for moire i just read the frequency of it coming up using a d70s.

i wouldnt wanna be shooting a kid wearing a shirt that has crazy patterns and then discovering that the shot had moire. In this particular case, the moment simply passed, i cant get the kid to pose the same way again.

im not actually looking for the perfect camera with no noise til 3200 iso and no moire whatsoever, i know they dont exist. I just wanted to ask those who have the d70 or d70s to comment if they have encountered it and how often.

some people may shoot 10,000 pictures before seeing 1 moire but maybe because they have been shooting in the wilds where patterns that result to moire are not encountered (although moire on a bird really does exist i just saw the picture). so im really just asking for the experience of some people here.

thanks dindin for the welcome.

the iso noise is not very troubling for me. i LOVE taking night shots though with the lights of the buildings in a far away scene...do you think high iso noise owuld be a problem there. i can always use a tripod and set the iso to 400 and leave the camera hehehehe.....

on the moire issue. i might put up a small business taking portrait shots of kids, i love kids and i think they are the perfect subjects. so i guess i can just tell the parents not to dress them in funky stripes or patterns hehehehe.....

to sir rolando : yeah i was just asking the frequency of moire from those using a d70 / d70s during their normal shooting habits.

thanks again all

Hey Christopher, please drop the "Sir" :D

Good luck with the kids, they can smell fear. hahahaha

@ christopher

i spoke too soon... i was resizing a photo earlier... and, here it is... with moire... not bad though...

http://static.flickr.com/77/176173985_1d78917234_o.jpg

hehehehe...

not bad at all dindin! in fact i like it! :D hmmm...after reading this thread, i'll be on the look-out for moire patterns when I use my D70...

sorry about that dindin but i agree its still a very nice picture.

mr randy. please do keep an eye out and drop us a line here =)

thanks

Chris, I bought a D70s mos. ago and I still have to encounter my first pic with moire....

BTW, I have bad eyes:)

hahahaha......nice pambawi mr. caloy.

honestly, the moire gave my photo an extra umph... imagine it without it, would have looked flat... heheheheh... it's growing on me... but of course, this wouldn't apply to all photos...

just thinking aloud...

@dindin
First time I saw moire in an actual photo. :Grin:

Used to have a D70, now a D70s and have not seen any moire in my pictures. :)

@rosalie

i'll show one more tom... found another one early this evening... but am not sad about it... looks more like an effect... heheheh...

took the same scene from another angle and the moire was gone...

@dindin

I've read somewhere that you could have taken that exact same picture again and it probably won't be there anymore. :Grin:

probably because the water patterns would have been different (not unless im turning blind and i see moire on the water and wala naman pala)

for these shots the effect is quite cool but imagine if you were shooting at the architecture in rome and see all those moire from the shingles or tiles from the roofs. medyo maiinis ka dba?

@christopher

Not necessarily... I saw a post somewhere where moire came out in the facade of a building. The guy tried taking the same picture a few more times after and moire never came out again. :)

@christopher

it seems the incidence of moire with the d70s isn't clockwork. like rosalie said you can take the same photo and the moire may not come out again. although you may experience it i don't think the incidence will be enough to affect your photography in general. you'd probably take thousands of photos before you get one incidence or you may take one off the bat then never get it again.

every camera has its limitations. be aware of that. then go out and take pictures. that's what it's all about. :)

nolan? from ateneo ME?

sorry for the OT

yeah, i agree its a lil hard to predict although if you really want it to come out there are tests that are generally accurate but pixel counting is not good for anyone's health =)

D70 user since early 2005 and now a proud owner of a D70s.

Only encountered moire once. :)

nolan? from ateneo ME?

sorry for the OT

yeah, i agree its a lil hard to predict although if you really want it to come out there are tests that are generally accurate but pixel counting is not good for anyone's health =)
OT - yep that's me

at any rate, maybe you can borrow a d70s for a day and try it on for size. see if your type of photography produces moire more readily. if it does then maybe another camera. if it doesn't, then maybe you shouldn't be too bothered by it.

i personally have only used a d70 for about 2 years and have never encountered it. :)

nolan, im not too sure if you remember my name bro. hows the wifey?

you gave a veyr good suggestion theres 1 problem, i dont know anyone with a d70s hehehe.... d50 meron.

i have a chance to get a canon 20d so im trying to bang my head against any fairly sturdy inanimate object in the hopes on jarring my light bulb and hopefully making a realization. analysis paralysis.....

Christopher, Yohoo... :D

You want a camera that will not give you moire ever? Get one of Sigma SLR. They use Foveon X3 Technology (http://www.dpreview.com/news/0202/02021102foveonx3tech.asp) which takes care of Moire and other artifacts.

Of course, there would be another downside to this, maybe worst than Moire, but like it was said, there is no such thing as perfect. :D

nolan, im not too sure if you remember my name bro. hows the wifey?

you gave a veyr good suggestion theres 1 problem, i dont know anyone with a d70s hehehe.... d50 meron.

i have a chance to get a canon 20d so im trying to bang my head against any fairly sturdy inanimate object in the hopes on jarring my light bulb and hopefully making a realization. analysis paralysis.....

of course i remember. wife's doing well. anyway enough OT.

yep analysis paralysis. if you focus a lot on reviews and such you might end up with no camera. if you really want to try one maybe you can attend the EB on Friday to try one on for size. it will at least give you a few hours of experience with the d70s. i think that's the only way you'll be able to figure out for yourself if moire will be a big issue for you.

thanks again!