I am not too familiar with gray units, but I would assume that gray units are identical in build and performance and that they're less expensive than non-gray units.

So what's the difference? Is it warranty, is it after sale support? Is it illegal to buy/sell these units? How can you tell if a unit is gray or not? How much cheaper are they compared to non-gray (say a D2Xs)?

I'm neither a proponent nor condone gray units, just want to know what's up?

Gray market is not illegal, the black market is. It is openly sold in a lot of retailers here in the States and if it is illegal, I don't think they'd have the guts to do that. The main difference is the channel to which the product came from. White market are sold directly by the manufacturer's local distributors to the retailers whereas gray markets are brought in using other channels (import/export). The reason they are cheaper is because they don't have any warranty, although some retailers will offer a warranty for the product. The local distributors won't have anything to do with it.

Another thing, if a product offers rebates, gray market products are not qualified.

Hope this helps.

If I remember correctly, there was a post by Master Jo Avila somewhere regarding gray market items. I just couldn't remember which thread was it located.

Could Master Jo repost or say something about this again... :):):)

Since Nikon's quality control is pretty good, is the price difference worth not having the limited warranty?

How big a price differencce anyway?

Gray market products are parallel imports to those of the official distributor's and sold by local shops at a lower price. The difference is that the warranty is not honored in-country and the shop owner probably have to ship it back for repairs.

Gray market products undermine the profitability of the country distributor as it obviously means less unit sales for them which results in higher cost of warranty servicing which would mean higher retail prices. It becomes a chicken-and-egg situation. But, I have to admit that in this age of globalization and online shopping - there's no stopping a savvy shopper from exploiting the price disparities brought about by the bigger purchasing power of US retailers and kind hearts of jet-setting relatives/friends. These savings range from 10-30% off the local SRP.

Being a Nikon and Canon reseller for the past 4 years, I have to say that the price difference is inconsistent - it's sometimes cheaper here and sometimes there. It's usually cheaper in HK as it is a major transhipment point of electronics gear, esp cameras, and stores carry both official and gray market products (remember how'd you get Russian or Japanese manuals plus a photocopy in English?)

For example, the Nikon 18-200VR lens is cheaper here even at the full SRP price of 43T with invoice and local warranty. It's higher in HK, plus most shops offer only 3-mo shop warranty while the full 1-year Nikon HK warranty products are even higher.

On the other hand, the Nikon 200/2 is roughly 200,000 pesos in HK but it's like 240,000 here.

The MBD200 (D200 vertical grip) is almost at parity based on local SRP.

Add to the mix the odd promo that local distributors do and price disparity becomes even more confusing. Take the SB800, for example, they were bundled with D70's before and you could get them for as low as P15,000 if the shop decides to break the promo package -- that's 5,000 off the SRP. But since the promo has long ended, price is now back to the 20,000 range but some buyers are still stuck at the 15,000 price point.

The long and short of it is to always support your local distributor and ask for better pricing as their volume of business increases at the expense of the gray marketers. If anything, the VAT that we pay goes to the government (well most of it, I hope).

@jerrytieng
thanks for that comprehensive information about gray market.

Knowng this graymarket thingy, you must be in tough times combatting this for the longest time since you started reselling. What are the ways you handled gray market competition?

A related question is, are some that are sold at hidalgo is an example of gray market items?

here are some articles directly from nikon & other sources

http://www.nikonrebates.com/Pages/FAQ.html

http://www.bythom.com/warranty.htm

Since Nikon's quality control is pretty good, is the price difference worth not having the limited warranty?

No manufacturer is perfect. Variances do exist between copies of the same product, especially with lenses. Also, modern cameras/lenses have a lot of electronics in them which are bound to fail sooner or later(AFS motors comes to mind).

Personally, I'd rather have the peace of mind of having a 5 year warranty unless the price difference is really that much. If for some reason your lens/camera develops a back-focus/front-focus issue, Nikon will re-calibrate it for you at no charge within the warranty period. They would even clean your sensor for free the first time you send your camera in. They even fixed my 105 VR for free after I accidentally dropped it and messed up the AF and VR. :Shock:

I guess for me, the answer would be YES.

By the way, this is coming from a US market point of view.

regards,

You dropped you 105mm VR? How could you!!!

:D :D :D

Yeah Rolly, it sucks :(. See my other thread.

The more grey market is bought, the weaker the Darkside becomes...

you don't get what you don't pay for.

other than the missing warranty, some vendor take out some of the accesories ie software, cables etc and when you ask for those accesories they will get it for you for additional charges of course.

The more grey market is bought, the weaker the Darkside becomes...

....and so does Mr. Anderson :)

Support local distributors so they can cook up more for our benefit :Grin:

Or maybe the Darkside becomes stronger because more can afford it.

There are a number of reasons why the grey market exists.
Two of the most important are service and pricing.
Fail on either one of these with your products, and you are sure of having your product imported by parallel importers.
I believe Mr. Tan is fixing the service portion of that equation. That will surely gain the confidence of Nikonians all over.:) The pricing of Nikon products in the Philippines, however, is another story.:(

There are a number of reasons why the grey market exists.
Two of the most important are service and pricing.
Fail on either one of these with your products, and you are sure of having your product imported by parallel importers.
I believe Mr. Tan is fixing the service portion of that equation. That will surely gain the confidence of Nikonians all over.:) The pricing of Nikon products in the Philippines, however, is another story.:(

Well said Couz.! :)

If consumers buy more from Columbia Digital, I can negotiate and squeeze Nikon HQ to give us better pricing. More units purchased = lower prices for Philippine market... :)

If consumers buy more from Columbia Digital, I can negotiate and squeeze Nikon HQ to give us better pricing. More units purchased = lower prices for Philippine market... :)

Unfortunately, I think lower prices will have to come first for there to be more units to be bought locally. Not the other way around. :)

Unfortunately, I think lower prices will have to come first for there to be more units to be bought locally. Not the other way around. :)

that is correct. bring the prices down and the orders will follow.

In as much as I would like to help the Force, I have to agree with Rosalie. I don't think there are a lot who would be willing to sacrifice and pay more with the hope that this will ultimately bring down the prices of the goods that they want when they can actually buy something at the price they want somewhere now. I think the company has to sacrifice initially.

I'm sure Columbia will be taking our concerns to Nikon HK. I realize that the Columbia also needs to cover some overhead, but one great way to compete with the Grey market is thru credit. Wouldnt paying 7k a month over 12 months be better than paying cash P75K cash?

Even when one has the cash, one will even consider a higher camera model when credit is available. Just look how tempting the promos of Sony are for their new LCD TV's!

I'm still waiting for the day that Columbia Digital would work hand in hand with local credit card companies and start pushing credit card installment packages.

I'm sure Columbia will be taking our concerns to Nikon HK. I realize that the Columbia also needs to cover some overhead, but one great way to compete with the Grey market is thru credit. Wouldnt paying 7k a month over 12 months be better than paying cash P75K cash?

Even when one has the cash, one will even consider a higher camera model when credit is available. Just look how tempting the promos of Sony are for their new LCD TV's!

I'm still waiting for the day that Columbia Digital would work hand in hand with local credit card companies and start pushing credit card installment packages.

You have a point. Everything now is payable via installments. :Grin:

A possible solution would be to increase the current warranty period to provide more value to customers buying non-gray market goods.

The current one year warranty is simply too short for such expensive pieces of equipment. These things can go out of whack even from normal everyday use. What good is an f/1.4 lens if it back focuses? A single issue can wipe out the savings you have gained from buying gray market.

Warranty service is the main reason people are patronizing authorized dealers here in the US even if they're priced much higher. The peace of mind provided by the extended warranty (5 years for lenses) simply cannot be beat.

If the local distributor can offer at least 3 years of warranty, I'm sure a lot of people would think twice before buying gray-market stuff.

just my 2 cents,

A possible solution would be to increase the current warranty period to provide more value to customers buying non-gray market goods.

The current one year warranty is simply too short for such expensive pieces of equipment. These things can go out of whack even from normal everyday use. What good is an f/1.4 lens if it back focuses? A single issue can wipe out the savings you have gained from buying gray market.

Warranty service is the main reason people are patronizing authorized dealers here in the US even if they're priced much higher. The peace of mind provided by the extended warranty (5 years for lenses) simply cannot be beat.

If the local distributor can offer at least 3 years of warranty, I'm sure a lot of people would think twice before buying gray-market stuff.

just my 2 cents,

I would definitely go for the longer warranty period. :)

I'm sure Columbia will be taking our concerns to Nikon HK. I realize that the Columbia also needs to cover some overhead, but one great way to compete with the Grey market is thru credit. Wouldnt paying 7k a month over 12 months be better than paying cash P75K cash?

Even when one has the cash, one will even consider a higher camera model when credit is available. Just look how tempting the promos of Sony are for their new LCD TV's!

I'm still waiting for the day that Columbia Digital would work hand in hand with local credit card companies and start pushing credit card installment packages.

All our Nikon cameras SLR and Coolpix come with 6 months 0% interest option through card. This depends with the dealer though.

The D2Xs comes with 12 months 0% interest.

A possible solution would be to increase the current warranty period to provide more value to customers buying non-gray market goods.

The current one year warranty is simply too short for such expensive pieces of equipment. These things can go out of whack even from normal everyday use. What good is an f/1.4 lens if it back focuses? A single issue can wipe out the savings you have gained from buying gray market.

Warranty service is the main reason people are patronizing authorized dealers here in the US even if they're priced much higher. The peace of mind provided by the extended warranty (5 years for lenses) simply cannot be beat.

If the local distributor can offer at least 3 years of warranty, I'm sure a lot of people would think twice before buying gray-market stuff.

just my 2 cents,

2 years warranty baka pwede pa. We will see pa.

All our Nikon cameras SLR and Coolpix come with 6 months 0% interest option through card. This depends with the dealer though.

The D2Xs comes with 12 months 0% interest.

Hi Anderson,

I suggest that you also get card services from other suppliers. Apparently, you only accept Diners card? I don't think this is the card that most people use these days. I suggest Mastercard or Visa, from any bank. :)

2 years warranty baka pwede pa. We will see pa.

Something to look forward to... :)

Hi Anderson,

I suggest that you also get card services from other suppliers. Apparently, you only accept Diners card? I don't think this is the card that most people use these days. I suggest Mastercard or Visa, from any bank. :)

Yes! Visa or Mastercard :Grin:

Yes! Visa or Mastercard :Grin:

Definitely! Come to think of it, don't know anyone who carries a Diners card... :Thinking:

Our dealers have Visa and Mastercard. Dito lang sa head office yung Diners. We will be getting Visa and Mastercard for the head office soon.

Our dealers have Visa and Mastercard. Dito lang sa head office yung Diners. We will be getting Visa and Mastercard for the head office soon.

Hi. Which dealers are we talking about here who offer 6-12mos zero interest on VISA and MasterCard? I am very interested to see those dealers.

that is correct. bring the prices down and the orders will follow.

agree on both points. i just put a query on the cost of lenses and unfortunately prices are really not that competitive. :(

agree on both points. i just put a query on the cost of lenses and unfortunately prices are really not that competitive. :(

And since lenses carry Nikon Worldwide Warranty, it's easy to decide to get it from another country.

2 years warranty baka pwede pa. We will see pa.

And maybe the option to purchase extended warranty like what they do in the US. Its kinda like insurance nadin.

For a year extension sa warranty is a good addition nadin for paying a little bit more.

And since lenses carry Nikon Worldwide Warranty, it's easy to decide to get it from another country.
Will the Nikon worldwide warranty still apply to grey market lenses bought overseas (e.g. lens bought in HK but without Nikon HK warranty)?

p.s. Hi Brent, I think we met at Pacific Coffee near Tonyboy's office (kami yung bumili ng D50) :)

Automatic center at Glorietta offers D50/70/80 at 0% interest I believe. I assume these are non-gray units for the price they charge. D80 was at P75k with the kit 18-135 lens if I remember it right.

Columbia at SM Megamall sells D80s at the same price of 75k, but without the 0% interest. This is a good bargain.

Comparing prices between Hidalgo and Mall prices, there's a 15K difference and this is huge. I can buy a good lense with this. Just a question: Are the units sold in Hidalgo grey market? Does it come with warranty? I'm trying to secure my budget, and will be buying my D80 soon.

Thanks!

Columbia at SM Megamall sells D80s at the same price of 75k, but without the 0% interest. This is a good bargain.

Comparing prices between Hidalgo and Mall prices, there's a 15K difference and this is huge. I can buy a good lense with this. Just a question: Are the units sold in Hidalgo grey market? Does it come with warranty? I'm trying to secure my budget, and will be buying my D80 soon.

Thanks! I agree. Even with minimum waranty from purchasing gray market units. since its a Nikon or any brand the quality build should be good. (I was just unlucky w 1 unit)its very tempting to buy gray market units cuz of the price difference specially if youre on a budget.

Our dealers have Visa and Mastercard. Dito lang sa head office yung Diners. We will be getting Visa and Mastercard for the head office soon.

Hi Mr. Anderson. Meron na ba D40?

If you buy grey, its not only after sales service which is the problem. The problem with the units is that you're not even sure if what you bought is brand new. The merchant probably doesnt know likewise if what was exported to them is brand new, given the shady sources (or they probably dont care if the unit is brand new or not).

If you buy grey, then consider buying second hand which could even be cheaper. Plus, I think former owners are even more credible.

So some grey units could be refurbished ones?

Who knows? Do they require their supplier to ship out brand new equipment?

What if we had a nikon club and all nikon owner register thier units serial numbers and we keep track record of these registered itmes?This way even theft can be prevented. History of the items can be reviewed by potential buyers. Could be beneficial to both parties right?

What if we had a nikon club and all nikon owner register thier units serial numbers and we keep track record of these registered itmes?This way even theft can be prevented. History of the items can be reviewed by potential buyers. Could be beneficial to both parties right?

Dodie

Maybe this is easier for Columbia Digital to execute as they already have all the serial numbers with them. they just need to associate it with our names.

Leonard

2 years warranty baka pwede pa. We will see pa.

When this be implemented? is this retroactive? :Grin:

Expect gray cameras to have non-English manuals, non-English software.

The cheapest gray D80 kit (18-135 lens) was quoted to me at P60k. You can get a Columbia D80 kit from Automatic center in Glorietta for about P72+k (cash). So for the 12k diff, you can some piece of mind, manuals, tripod, bag, and other freebies. I couldn't afford the difference so I went gray.

What if we had a nikon club and all nikon owner register thier units serial numbers and we keep track record of these registered itmes?This way even theft can be prevented. History of the items can be reviewed by potential buyers. Could be beneficial to both parties right?

great idea! we can share this list of serial numbers here in DPP-Nikon Group. :)

Does all shops in Hidalgo sells grey units? Like Henrys or Avenue?