Just wanted to shoot this out to the group.

We at DPP are near finalizing our Photographer of the Year contest for 2007.

We need some of your last minute comments on this since we are near finalizing the details. So far, this is what we have come up with:

1) A monthly theme.
2) Points will be awarded for the photo from 0-100
3) Only one photo per photographer to be submitted per month
4) Open to all photographers, professional and amateur. Mods not allowed to participate (Sorry guys!)
5) No photoshop restrictions. Photoshop to your heart's content.
6) The contest will run for twelve months, but participants will only be allowed to participate for eight months. The reason? To allow late comers to join also.
7) In December 2007, we select the top 3 leaders and have a shoot out.
8) The shootout will determine the Photographer of the Year 2007.

Prizes and awards: Leave it up to the DPP team to secure this. It will be significant, we promise.

This thread is open for comments. We need some quick feedback from our members because we plan to finalize this in two weeks. Thanks!

wow this is interesting. Nick, why not allow voting for top three pictures and every picture will have certain number of pts?

Everyone is allowed three votes:

1st place: 3 points
2nd place: 2 points
3rd place: 1 point

highest number will determine the top 3 for the shootout. also why not submit 12 photos for 12 months and leave the option to choose 8/12 photos at the end of the year?

Nick, maybe it is good also to identify the breakdown of the 100 pts:Grin:

problem with 100 pts is that its very inaccurate. people tend to be moody and having a big scale of 0-100 can be problematic. having it in a scale of 3,2,1 can be simpler yet down to the point. Just my .2 cents

also maybe you guys can consider the F1 points system:)

How about a members choice voting system and additional points will be awarded. :)

I want to avoid Member's choice voting because this can be very biased. Friends vote heavily for friends.

We are leaning towards 100 point system because we expect many participants and need the spread to separate leaders. This system is also used in other international contests.

The 100 pts will be broken down into categories, ie. technical, theme, composition, etc.

that's cool nick! are these photos to be submitted limited to being taken at a particular period per month? or can a participant dig in his or her year old stock? :)

quote: 5) No photoshop restrictions. Photoshop to your heart's content.

i think we should limit the pp to basic editing, not the open advanced editing type. If we are to recognize photographers per se. Photoshop is part of digital photography but its a different skill altogether. With Photoshop capabilities, editing to "your heart's content" is virtually limitless.

This suggestion is only IF we want to award based on photographic talents.

I've been entering challenges in DPChallenge (http://www.dpcahllenge.com/) for over a year now. They have 2 categories: Basic Editing Rules and Advanced Editing Rules.

My humble opinion.

Dave,

The Photoshop is the one that we are still debating. Thanks for mentioning. Yes we are familiar too with DPchallenge.

Keep the comments coming cause we will take all your suggestions into consideration and finalize everything hopefully in two weeks.

I want to avoid Member's choice voting because this can be very biased. Friends vote heavily for friends.

We are leaning towards 100 point system because we expect many participants and need the spread to separate leaders. This system is also used in other international contests.

The 100 pts will be broken down into categories, ie. technical, theme, composition, etc.

I agree on this - same as with text-to-vote!

quote: 5) No photoshop restrictions. Photoshop to your heart's content.

i think we should limit the pp to basic editing, not the open advanced editing type. If we are to recognize photographers per se. Photoshop is part of digital photography but its a different skill altogether. With Photoshop capabilities, editing to "your heart's content" is virtually limitless.

This suggestion is only IF we want to award based on photographic talents.

I've been entering challenges in DPChallenge (http://www.dpcahllenge.com/) for over a year now. They have 2 categories: Basic Editing Rules and Advanced Editing Rules.

My humble opinion.

I also agree on this. Thanks Dave for raising.
I go for "click of the shutter, not click of the mouse" kind of thing.
My humble opinion as well.

quote: 5) No photoshop restrictions. Photoshop to your heart's content.

i think we should limit the pp to basic editing, not the open advanced editing type. If we are to recognize photographers per se. Photoshop is part of digital photography but its a different skill altogether. With Photoshop capabilities, editing to "your heart's content" is virtually limitless.

This suggestion is only IF we want to award based on photographic talents.

I've been entering challenges in DPChallenge (http://www.dpcahllenge.com/) for over a year now. They have 2 categories: Basic Editing Rules and Advanced Editing Rules.

My humble opinion.

I agree with Dave's suggestion about basic editing only. This way photographic skills will take the lead over PS skills.

I do not know if this is good... if the judges are from outside DPP, why can't the mods join?

I agree with Dave's suggestion about basic editing only. This way photographic skills will take the lead over PS skills.

i'm with the basic ps editing limitations... but, how do we know if it's photo manipulated in with 2-3 photos? I think, original photo will be an additional requirement.:BlackEye:

wow, i will be surely looking forward to this one :) when will this start?
what does it mean when participants are only allowed to join for 8months?
is that from January-October? or basta naka 8months na?

@Rolando- because most probably the judges will be the mods
@Tet- a very good idea.
@Tracy- start Jan 2007 and end Dec 2007. You will be only allowed to submit for 8 months. Up to you when to choose what months to participate. You may not like the theme for one month. We also need to allow new readers to join.

My 2 cents,

I'm not good with photoshop but restricting the use of it is not good.

My view is that the magazine promotes digital photography so moves to "bias" it either towards pure photography or digital art will not advance the artform. I would like the images to stand on it's own merit whether it was post processed or not.

Those who think photoshop geniuses are at a advantage in my view probably like the techniques but have not invested the time and effort to do it themselves.

Another reason is that Photoshop is a great equalizer for digital photographers. If I wanted a truly fair competition (as far as the Philippine setup is concerned), I'd limit the entries to only kit lenses.

In the end, the contest is not suppossed to be fair. It's suppossed to show the best. I don't want to win just because I know somebody else was disqualified for using techniques that I was too lazy to learn or using gear beyond his financial capability.

Good luck!

I agree with dave, post processing in itself is a craft and is an integral part of any digital photography. it levels the playing field bewteen those who can afford hi-end equipment and those who cant.

The contest in itself will have many loopholes, theres no perfect contest i assure you. Objectivity and subjectivity will always coincide.

Im excited about this contest...im sure the people in DPP will make a hella contest.

@ Dave Deluria and Edwin Martinez - Well said Bros.! :)

Just remember the contest title guys: "Digital Photographer Philippines Photographer Of The Year 2007"... This is digital, means sky's the limit! Purists, Photoshop, like photography requires skill to wield and execute... Don't be scared of some competition coz some of us can create virtual words which most of you can only dream about! Let's get this party started! :D hehehehehehehe

I love what Dave D. said...

"Those who think photoshop geniuses are at a advantage in my view probably like the techniques but have not invested the time and effort to do it themselves."

really guys, those who are very good/adept at photoshop and post processing have spent countless hours....long sleepless, coffee-less nights at their desktops striving to attain the look that they have been envisioning for their photographs. they do not hesitate to experiment with CS2's daunting collection of tools and filters. they download trial software and play with the capabilities. they research like crazy and browse a zillion other photographers' online galleries. they read what tutorials/ebooks/books/comments are available at their disposal. at the same time, they hone their photography skills so both their shooting and pp capabilities improve hand in hand.

those who have attained mastery of photoshop have done not so thru quick fixes and quick copying. the real greats have a unique pp style that they have developed from their own long experiments. the judges will know what kind of pp is derivative and what is original, i assure you that.

so i dare say, no limit to post-processing. this is digital my friends. if we lose to someone who has more photoshop moves than us, its not because he was good with his mouse clicks...

...but that his vision was just beyond what we have imagined.

this is not time to slack!

I'm not against photoshop, i like it a lot and use it a lot! Sometimes I feel like I don't want people to see my raw pictures without being photoshopped first. And I admire people who can use it to the fullest, like innovating and discovering ways to make their photos more impactful digital work of art. I'm sure it did not come overnight but the result of much time and hardwork.

But like I've said, it's capabilities are enormous, limitless even. The men behind it are likewise extra-ordinary, no limit to their imagination and what they can actually do. The "best" works out of photoshop (and other editing softwares) are mind-boggling to me.

But photography is not all about post-processing. It is more about composition, lighting, etc done inside the camera's actual limitations. I'm ok with 'enhancing" the photos through post-processing, making it more dramatic and more impactful, anyway, enhancement for me simply means it is there in the first place, we just want to bring it out.

But if I introduce new elements into the picture or do composites and clone out and clone in major objects which is all possible in PS, I would have taken away the merits from the art and skills of photography itself. I was thinking this is the main objective of the contest--to recognize great photos and photographers.

Digital photography has its advantages and disadvantages compared to film photography but I hope the same disciplines and essentials are maintained by the contest rules. I don't consider myself a purist. I still shoot film but I like digital more simply because I can use my PC as my personal "darkroom." I wanted to learn how Digital Artists like friend, Ross Capili, come up with his exceptional fine arts photography, I really do. We should likewise recognize their talents in their respective fields of expertise.

Hi tukayo (Dave Deluria) and Edwin and Jay na rin, I know you'll not take this personally, peace tayo. Takut ako sa forum wars, hehe. Just sharing my thoughts. God bless.

@ Earl, I agree. If that's what the contest is all about, why not?

Opo (Yes sir)... no offense taken. As members here it's our job to confuse the heck out of the mods since they asked he he he.

Opo (Yes sir)... no offense taken. As members here it's our job to confuse the heck out of the mods since they asked he he he.

right tukayo :)

if sky's the limit when using PS then judging entries would all boil down to visual impact. This will bring out the creativity of people outside their cam&lens. You can do lots of tricks in PS, baka mahirapan ang mga judges hehe...
Just hoping that those future winning entries will share their techniques used both in PS and photography. :D
What if there are 2 titles na lang? one for DPP Photographer Of The Year 2007 and DPP Photoshop artists Of The Year 2007, hehe

hi uli (again)! :)

dave trinidad has just made a significant point.

i meant post-processing ha. if the contest doesnt call for digital art, then i believe we shouldnt be submitting photos with fake suns or moons. i hope that is understood. im also sure the judges will be able to discern the merits of these kinds of photos....

no offense po to the practioners of digital art. but when the contest calls for specific photography skills, then let real photographs be enhanced thru pp alone. no additional elements need be necessary.

@ Dave Trinidad - Bro. it's all good... Whatever, rules they come up with, so be it and may the best, win! :) We're just sharing ideas, no harm or damage taken here--I hope it's the same with you and the rest. Cheers :D

hi uli (again)! :)

dave trinidad has just made a significant point.

i meant post-processing ha. if the contest doesnt call for digital art, then i believe we shouldnt be submitting photos with fake suns or moons. i hope that is understood. im also sure the judges will be able to discern the merits of these kinds of photos....

no offense po to the practioners of digital art. but when the contest calls for specific photography skills, then let real photographs be enhanced thru pp alone. no additional elements need be necessary.

I believe that no one would stoop down to the level of cheating... As long as everyone follow rules and instructions, then all should be cool. :)

I believe that no one would stoop down to the level of cheating... As long as everyone follow rules and instructions, then all should be cool. :)

we're cool bros. earl and jay and dave d. :)

It's up to the organizers now. I just hope they come up with a system that handles the bulk submission. Like other contests, entries for the month should only be made visible online AFTER all entries have been submitted. Is this the plan?

Yes Dave, as opposed to the monthly Readers Gallery, Photos for the Photographer of the Year will be made visible AFTER all the entries have been submitted.

We'll keep the thread open for another week just to get a few more comments then finalize all the details and make a formal announcement.

i would side with dave d. on the PP thing. no limits. i'm not good at photoshop either. it still scares me. but i'd say photoshop is just another tool in digital photography that not everyone has mastered. just like a fisheye lens, that not everyone has. or a set of IR filters than only a handful of DPP memebers own. limiting photoshop would be just like limiting my ef 50mm f1.2L to just f1.8 so that i won't get that extra light and bokeh (not that i have one hehe!).

but all is good whatever DPP decides on... i think this is fun and i'm looking forward to it!

Nick,

All sounds good, save for 2 items...

1. Photoshop. Having come from film, and having to do it the hard way, I'm not such a "digital enhancement" lover. I still believe that photos should be made with the final product straight from the camera as much as possible, so as the previous posts say, base the judgement on technical merits and not "photoshop to death" merits. or yes, have another category for the heavy photoshop users.

2. Define shoot-off? How would that work? The finalists are given a subject and they shoot it? Or will it be a literal shoot-off, as in everyone in one location/studio and they shoot the required subject on the spot?

really guys, those who are very good/adept at photoshop and post processing have spent countless hours....long sleepless, coffee-less nights at their desktops striving to attain the look that they have been envisioning for their photographs. they do not hesitate to experiment with CS2's daunting collection of tools and filters. they download trial software and play with the capabilities. they research like crazy and browse a zillion other photographers' online galleries. they read what tutorials/ebooks/books/comments are available at their disposal. at the same time, they hone their photography skills so both their shooting and pp capabilities improve hand in hand.



I can relate to this hehehehehehe long sleepless nights wtih hands reaching the carpal tunnel syndrome...

I can relate to this hehehehehehe long sleepless nights wtih hands reaching the carpal tunnel syndrome...

Ditto Bro.! :) Plus kickin' and throwin' things around sometimes due to the lack of inspiration. :D hehehehehehehe

Tonio,

That's why we're shooting this out to the group first to hear comments before we finalize.

Re:

1) Photoshop- still undecided. But only one category for this contest and not one for mild photoshop and the other for heavy photoshop. We'll make a decision on this after listening to other comments.

2) Shoot out- was thinking about taking the top three or so in December and give them an assignment/subject list to come up wth photography over the period of a week.

Nick,

All sounds good, save for 2 items...

1. Photoshop. Having come from film, and having to do it the hard way, I'm not such a "digital enhancement" lover. I still believe that photos should be made with the final product straight from the camera as much as possible, so as the previous posts say, base the judgement on technical merits and not "photoshop to death" merits. or yes, have another category for the heavy photoshop users.

2. Define shoot-off? How would that work? The finalists are given a subject and they shoot it? Or will it be a literal shoot-off, as in everyone in one location/studio and they shoot the required subject on the spot?

This sounds interesting, I agree with the comments that Post Processing is a major part of the photographer's skill and therefore the photographer should not be limited to what he can do in post processing. It is after all down to the artist's vision!

Also agree that voting should be limited to the moderator's.

One slight question though.....

I assume you will not be limiting the camera to digital cameras only and we can use film cameras (of any variety, 35mm, medium format or technical camera's) with the negative's scanned and suitably presented in digital format? (why do I ask, because recently I'm shooting lot's more film than digital!)


Mike

Guys,

Remember, there's a shootout in the end. So if the members who were chosen were people who are adept at photoshop but not really good in photography and some very good in photography but not in photoshop, how can this be a balanced playing field? And I will assume that the shootout will have some themes right? Is this going to be the same as the Photographer of the Year contest held by the Popular Photography (http://www.popphoto.com) magazine?

My two cents too.

Marco

Maybe this article (http://www.photosig.com/articles/12/article;jsessionid=avTJEPYI57xd5PCQYS) can help in our decision. I echo the sentiments of the writer.

Before the mods come up with a decision, I would like to express my support to Dave T.'s opinion. And yes indeed, it should be up to the mods to decide.

The contest will be for the benefit of all photographers especially those who are joining, to learn and improve, and also for the magazine.

I believe I read it right: "DPP Photographer Of The Year 2007", not "DPP Photoshop Artist Of The Year 2007". No intension to offend anyone but this is how the title sound and means to me. Enhancements like cropping & color correction will be allowed, but manipulation like doing a mosaic or a combination of B&W and color in an image shouldn't. Leave it to layout artist for a wedding storybook! One doesn't even have to be a photographer to be a photoshop/graphic artist.

Digital camera companies are doing their best to advance in their technology so that the effects and qualities you want for a photo to have can be readily made in the camera itself - like NikonD2Xs' Multiple Exposure up to 10 frames, and a whole lot more.

Also, I suggest that whenever a photo is selected for a monthly theme, original photos with its EXIF should be required to check if its not tampered; or if it is scanned from film, the photographer should have the transparency ready - right MikeDougan?

just expressing...

Mike,

So long as the image is digitized. Medium format, large formats, pinhole cameras, Lomos are all open game. Hope you join.



This sounds interesting, I agree with the comments that Post Processing is a major part of the photographer's skill and therefore the photographer should not be limited to what he can do in post processing. It is after all down to the artist's vision!

Also agree that voting should be limited to the moderator's.

One slight question though.....

I assume you will not be limiting the camera to digital cameras only and we can use film cameras (of any variety, 35mm, medium format or technical camera's) with the negative's scanned and suitably presented in digital format? (why do I ask, because recently I'm shooting lot's more film than digital!)


Mike

Oh here's one... I guess it would help to make the names of the entrants anonymous to the judges so that there would be no reputational bias. :)

Earl,

Good one. Just need to figure out logistics on how to do that.

Special awards maybe? Most stunning/moving photograph?
Favorite Photographer under 21? Haha.
I agree with earl too. :)

i like that Sonny . . .pwede siguro 25 and below . . . hehehe young guns . . . :)

Special awards maybe? Most stunning/moving photograph?
Favorite Photographer under 21? Haha.
I agree with earl too. :)

if you're 21 and below, you need a written consent from your parents to join. hahaha

quote: 5) No photoshop restrictions. Photoshop to your heart's content.

i think we should limit the pp to basic editing, not the open advanced editing type. If we are to recognize photographers per se. Photoshop is part of digital photography but its a different skill altogether. With Photoshop capabilities, editing to "your heart's content" is virtually limitless.

This suggestion is only IF we want to award based on photographic talents.

I've been entering challenges in DPChallenge (http://www.dpcahllenge.com/) for over a year now. They have 2 categories: Basic Editing Rules and Advanced Editing Rules.

My humble opinion.


Agree... Photoshop is a requisit to Digital Photography, but Limitless PS could already be considered as Digital Art? Which is already different ballgame from "Photography".

My own personal understanding when I hear Photogrpher of the year is based on what the Photographer captured or composed for an image.

Just my opinion :)

@Nino,
Hey... Least I have a bigger chance of winning right? :D

Oh here's one... I guess it would help to make the names of the entrants anonymous to the judges so that there would be no reputational bias. :)

was just going to suggest that. :)

All of your statements are correct.
I want to ask is this a digital photography? maybe not a digital art?

A limitation of category should be set aside.
Give some guidelines so all are fair in decision.

We have newbie photographers, just like me
I process some images on what process taken on photography laboratory.

Thanks

FherD

maybe we can have a dry run this december so all goes smooth jan of next year... ;)

was just going to suggest that. :)

Just woke up earlier... :)

Well,

you can haev the entries collected, record the names and then assign them sequentialnumbers. So the judges see no names but numbers.

Of course the one who handlesthe entries shoud be quiet...

Earl,

Good one. Just need to figure out logistics on how to do that.

Hi,

consider the system of CCP. as discussed here their contests are anonymously entered (one way of doing this is to submit prints instead of sof copies), thematic, have good degree of leniency on PP and scored by guest/ third party judges. scoring system is very good too =)

im looking forward to this as well =)

here are some examples of the different levels of advanced post processing:

pp to enhance photography:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/zuan/239390395/

border but maybe acceptable pp:
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=269066021&size=o

excessive pp (digital art):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/origamikid/83023656/

this is great!

Sir Nick, first of all I’d like to say that this is a great idea but May I ask the following:

Can pinoys from outside the Philippines compete too?
Will this monthly/per year competition be exclusive to DPP Magazine subscribers only?

Another is the number 5 item which says {No Photoshop restrictions. Photoshop to your heart's content.} I believe that we should define Digital Post Processing and Digital Graphic Manipulation first to enlighten the forums members.

Digital post processing is applying the concept of traditional darkroom processing by using digital software in which the original image will be enhanced while retaining the original compositions integrity.

Digital Graphic Manipulation is using different elements graphically or physically produced by compositing all of them to create a whole new single composition.

I like what the others said about the digital post processing; touching on the extent of digital enhancement that is to be applied to the image to be submitted. Imho, I believe that there is and should have elicit constraints as to the extent of the post processing; after all the theme is “DPPPhotographer Of The Year 2007" - Photographer for me means using the modern pinhole to create a piece of image. Digital Photography and Digital Art are 2 different fields, if a graphic artist who is a hustler in digital artwork submits a piece that is graphically manipulated and wins then it wont be fare for the other person who had invested on a very expensive photographic equipment with little knowledge on digital arts.

I’ve read good suggestions like limiting the extent of processing and not alter the content of the composition other than enhancing the appeal of the image. Some said to submit the original captured image, if possible with printout. I’d like to ask that if the printout will not be possible for example from the pinoys outside the Philippines, would the original .nef or .jpeg image with exif data suffice?