Color Management Questions (Sticky Thread) [Archive] - Digital Photographer Philippines

Jo Avila

12-20-2008, 08:08 AM

was able to borrow a spyder express and finally calibrated my monitor, though i have a noob question, after calibrating...

should i use SOFT proofing (CTRL+Y) when working in PS or should i leave it off?

what setting(s) should i use when "SOFT" proofing via PS? should i use the profile made by spyder express or not? monitor RGB?

i have assigned windows XP to use the profile created by spyder express, this is correct right?

anymore tips and tricks will be appreciated, i will be returning this device in a few days' time so i have to know that im doing it right (para sulit!)

TIA :)

The Spyder allows you to Calibrate AND profile the display. :D

This isn't a one time process. You'll have to borrow the unit again soon. You might also have to redo it often if you are using a laptop. A change in location means a change in ambient light :D

Softproofing allows the image on the screen to imitate how it will look once printed.

So, are you editing the image to look good on your display monitor?

Or, are you editing the image so that it will print better?

Softproofing allows you to edit the image for the print with greater confidence.

Your settings in softproofing will have to be the color profile for the printer and the paper and your choice of rendering intent (i.e. Perceptual, etc.).

The display profile created by the Spyder was only meant to describe the color behavior of your display monitor.

It should never be used as a color workspace nor as a setting in softproofing if you will be printing the image.

Cheers!

Jo Avila

LeandroLosaria

12-21-2008, 10:33 AM

@sir jo

thanks for the comments, i was just wondering because my images' colors look "weird" when in photoshop and when i "SOFT PROOF" using the calibrated profile it looks "normal"

so i guess my colors were off to start with already and what the "calibrated" monitor shows is closest to correct :D

so after calibrating and when i go to photoshop do i just edit straight away? no more tweaks?

(im quite new to calibration :D)

is there a tutorial of the steps to do regarding color calibration? :) thanks

Jo Avila

12-21-2008, 10:43 AM

Sigh ...

For the Nth time - you calibrate AND profile the display :D

(Why most people persist by just saying "calibrate" only? It's almost as infuriating when people say DPI when they are actually referring to PPI. LOL! :D)

You do NOT soft proof using the display profile created by the Spyder.

That was already loaded by Photoshop automatically to describe the color behavior of your display. You don't have to load or access it manually.

You specify the color profile for the printer and paper when you soft proof.

You're supposed to edit based on what you see in the soft proof.

Cheers!

Jo Avila

@sir jo

thanks for the comments, i was just wondering because my images' colors look "weird" when in photoshop and when i "SOFT PROOF" using the calibrated profile it looks "normal"

so i guess my colors were off to start with already and what the "calibrated" monitor shows is closest to correct :D

so after calibrating and when i go to photoshop do i just edit straight away? no more tweaks?

(im quite new to calibration :D)

is there a tutorial of the steps to do regarding color calibration? :) thanks

LeandroLosaria

12-21-2008, 03:05 PM

i see, like i said im new to this and it's a whole new experience for me, no need to get infuriated or pissed with my questions :Grin:

anyway thanks for the info :)

Jo Avila

12-21-2008, 09:34 PM

i see, like i said im new to this and it's a whole new experience for me, no need to get infuriated or pissed with my questions :Grin:

anyway thanks for the info :)

I ain't pissed. When I said infuriated I was poking fun at how often I have encountered the same questions. Which is why I said "LOL!" and added a smiley :D

Okay, let's take it from the top.

You calibrate AND profile your display with the Spyder.

You'll first have to warm up your display for a prerequisite amount of time. This depends on whether you are using an LCD or a CRT display monitor. The Spyder software should give you the recommended minimum amount of time.

This is also the minimum amount of time you should wait the next time you edit images on your computer.

The Spyder software should guide you regarding what gamma, whitepoint and screen brightness/contrast or luminance settings to you. This is the part where you are calibrating your display.

The Spyder software will then instruct you to place the Spyder hardware on a certain area on your display. The Spyder software will then generate different patches of color that the hardware will use to help the whole system generate a description of the color behavior of your display. This is the part of the process know as profiling.

Your system should then load the newly generated display profile if all works well.

I prefer as much as possible that there is no direct light hitting my display.

It is okay for the screensaver to come on while you are warming up the display.

It is NOT okay for the screensaver to come on while you are profiling the display.

NEITHER is it okay for the display monitor to sleep while you are warming up the display or profiling it.

Open the image you want to edit in Photoshop. You then have to ask yourself where will you be printing the image. You have to do this because your choice of printer and paper will determine the color profile you will have to select for softproofing.

You don't specify the display profile for softproof settings because you don't edit an image to look good on your screen.

You don't use the display profile as a color workspace because it is a device specific color profile. Using a device specific color profile as your color workspace makes it unstable.

You will have to redo the whole process of calibrating and profiling if you change any of your display settings (i.e. Screen pixel dimensions, color bit depth, brightness/contrast, gamma, whitepoint, etc.)

Let's just say for example that you will be printing on the Canon Pixma Pro9000 using Canon Everyday Glossy Photo paper. The color profile for this would be Canon Pro9000 SG1.

In Photoshop, you go to View>Proof Setup>Custom.

Under Device to Simulate choose the profile of Canon Pro9000 SG1.

Afterwards, you will have to specify your rendering intent (i.e Perceptual, Relative Colorimetric, Saturation, Absolute Colorimetric).

Check Black Point Compensation.

Click on OK.

Softproofing will then be turned on.

Edit the image based on the Softproof.

Afterwards (if you are using Photoshop CS3), go to File>Print.

Go to Page Setup and select the printer and paper size/orientation.

Under Color Handling, choose Photoshop Manages Colors.

Specify the same printer profile and rendering intent you used for soft proofing.

Check Black Point Compensation.

Click on Print.

Under Quality & Media, select the paper type that was the basis for your softproof settings.

Choose Best Quality Print settings.

Go to Color Options and set Color Correction to None or Off.

Click Print.

You should be working with 3-4 different color profiles or color spaces during this process:

1) The display profile which describes the color behavior of your display.

2) The color workspace you have specified in Photoshop (i.e. Adobe RGB, sRGB, etc.)

3) The embedded/assigned/tagged/enabled color profile of the digital image that you are editing (this is your source color space).

4) The color profile for the printer and the paper (this is your destination color space).

This basic workflow will apply to images that have to be printed at the color lab.

But you will have to go to Edit>Convert to Profile before you save the file and send it off to the photo lab (i.e. Digiprint). You will have to use and specify the color profiles provided for by the photo lab (i.e. Digiprint).

Cheers!

Jo Avila

P.S.

Okay na ba tayo diyan? :D

LeandroLosaria

12-21-2008, 09:41 PM

HWOW! this is a plethora of information available before my eyes!

maraming maraming salamat sir jo! :)

Jo Avila

12-21-2008, 09:47 PM

HWOW! this is a plethora of information available before my eyes!

maraming maraming salamat sir jo! :)

I just compiled what has already been written here in the forum :D LOL!

Check out Louie Aguinaldo's thread on Adobe RGB vs. sRGB.

That should help point you in the right direction.

Cheers!

Jo Avila

Carlo de la Concepcion

01-30-2009, 11:45 PM

Jo Avila

01-31-2009, 12:15 AM

Hi Jo,

I recently acquired an epson r1900, but I've had no luck finding epson a3 or a3+ paper. Canon glossy II pp-201 in a3+ seems to be readily available. Will the standard epson icc profile for glossy paper work well with this paper? Would you know where I can find an icc profile for this combination? Thanks.

Cheers,

Carlo

Color profiles like those you use for printing are device dependent/specific.

The color profiles were created assuming you would use original Epson inks AND paper.

Using a Canon paper on your Epson printer would be like using 3rd party consumables (i.e. CD-R King paper).

My guess is that the generic/canned profiles for your Epson printer will not work properly if you use Canon PP-201.

You would probably have to buy the necessary hardware/software (i.e. Datacolor Printfix Pro) to create the color profile you need.

Or, look for someone offering a color profiling service.

The downside to the options mentioned above is that they are a lot more expensive than just purchasing original Epson paper.

"But remember that color profiles only describe color."

(I still remember what Nick Tuason told me :D).

"Color profiles don't guarantee that the inks and the paper will be compatible."

Cheers!

Jo Avila

Carlo de la Concepcion

02-05-2009, 12:05 AM

Thanks Jo. You're right, the best option would be to use epson papers. So I just ordered from an online retailer. The surprising thing is that it still ended up being cheaper (even with shipping and local tax) than the quoted prices of epson phils. I couldn't resist the itch while I was waiting (I'm sure you know what that feels like.) so I did try the canon paper and I was pleased with the results. The epson paper though proved to be quite a bit more accurate in color and almost perfectly matched what I see on screen. After I downloaded the premium icc profiles from epson, the prints got even better still. Thanks for your help.

Cheers!

Carlo

diegojose

03-05-2009, 04:40 PM

Jo Avila

03-06-2009, 02:31 AM

Hi guys/Jo,

How is the proper color management done when I have to edit photos outdoors/on-location? (like if I have to work at starbucks). Do I calibrate at the location? And how do you determine what brightness/backlight to use when editing (I'm using a Macbook Pro)?

Thanks!

Diego

You generally have to redo display monitor calibration and profiling each time there is a change in the ambient light of your work area. Starbucks really isn't the best place to edit. Ideally, direct light from a window or from a strong overhead light should not be hitting your display.

The Spyder software and hardware should guide you regarding the brightness/backlight setting for your display.

Cheers!

Jo Avila

diegojose

03-06-2009, 02:52 AM

You generally have to redo display monitor calibration and profiling each time there is a change in the ambient light of your work area. Starbucks really isn't the best place to edit. Ideally, direct light from a window or from a strong overhead light should not be hitting your display.

The Spyder software and hardware should guide you regarding the brightness/backlight setting for your display.

Cheers!

Jo Avila

Thought so, but sometimes I'm stuck in the area and I avoid rush hour so I kill time at starbucks haha.

The spyder2express software doesn't say much for the backlight setting for my MBP though. It just says "default setting". Big help :Shock:

Jo Avila

03-06-2009, 08:02 AM

Thought so, but sometimes I'm stuck in the area and I avoid rush hour so I kill time at starbucks haha.

The spyder2express software doesn't say much for the backlight setting for my MBP though. It just says "default setting". Big help :Shock:

That's where the Spyder2 software got it wrong :D

Default doesn't always work.

Some people have commented that my screen looks too dark compared to others.

But I always get a good screen to print match anyway. :D

Cheers!

Jo Avila

ReD Ognita

03-06-2009, 08:15 AM

But I always get a good screen to print match anyway. :D<snip>
.... and that is all that matters :)
I have friends who does not care that much what the image would look like online as long as it prints close to what they see on the monitor.

which brings me to a question.

How do you handle clients that orders prints from your online gallery (viewing from a "common" monitor) knowing that the print would reflect a different result?
Honestly, the difference (unless drastic) is not readily seen, but personally, do you feel compelled to mention it anyway?

Jo Avila

03-06-2009, 09:02 AM

.... and that is all that matters :)
I have friends who does not care that much what the image would look like online as long as it prints close to what they see on the monitor.

which brings me to a question.

How do you handle clients that orders prints from your online gallery (viewing from a "common" monitor) knowing that the print would reflect a different result?
Honestly, the difference (unless drastic) is not readily seen, but personally, do you feel compelled to mention it anyway?

You sometimes see some photos captioned "Actual color of product may vary from picture." :D

I once had a client approve their wedding photo albums based on what they saw from one of my web galleries.

But the quality of the print far surpassed what they saw on the web.

IMO, a problem would arise if the quality of the print was drastically below par compared to what they saw on the web.

I don't think you'll hear any complaints if the printed image looks a lot better compared to what they saw on the web :D

Cheers!

Jo Avila

ReD Ognita

03-06-2009, 09:42 AM

<snip>

IMO, a problem would arise if the quality of the print was drastically below par compared to what they saw on the web.<snip>

True =)
Had a recent experience wherein a client pointed out her image of choice on her pc. I knew right there and then that it's not what it really looks like :) The blacks are not that deep. Washed out in a way.

Had the image printed and true enough, I have deeper blacks. Showed the print, and she was really happy.

Maybe it's just me :D

Thanks Jo!

diegojose

03-06-2009, 12:41 PM

That's where the Spyder2 software got it wrong :D

Default doesn't always work.

Some people have commented that my screen looks too dark compared to others.

But I always get a good screen to print match anyway. :D

Cheers!

Jo Avila

So I've heard (about the spyder2 software). So how do I determine what's a good screen brightness to use in calibration on the environment? :)

It says default but I don't even know my MBP's default settings :Shock:

Diego

Jo Avila

03-06-2009, 10:53 PM

So I've heard (about the spyder2 software). So how do I determine what's a good screen brightness to use in calibration on the environment? :)

It says default but I don't even know my MBP's default settings :Shock:

Diego

You test it. If your prints come out too dark - the display is too bright (which is why working in an environment like Starbucks make this hard to figure out - you want a work area that has a constant light source).

Cheers!

Jo Avila

Santino Telesforo

03-12-2009, 07:59 PM

Jo Avila

03-12-2009, 11:08 PM

Hi Sirs,

I apologize for the cross posting. I don't know where to post this question. :Scared:

After processing a RAW File, what is the best image file format to convert it to for printing 8"x12"? :)

Thanks!

I normally save the RAW file as JPEG if I will be having it printed at a one hour photo lab at the mall.

But I tend to save a PSD master file with my layers intact (not flattened) for future adjustment purposes.

Cheers!

Jo Avila

Santino Telesforo

03-13-2009, 12:02 AM

I normally save the RAW file as JPEG if I will be having it printed at a one hour photo lab at the mall.

But I tend to save a PSD master file with my layers intact (not flattened) for future adjustment purposes.

Cheers!

Jo Avila

Thanks for the advise, Sir Jo. :)

PhillipBiboso

05-19-2009, 02:23 PM

Jo Avila

05-20-2009, 01:22 AM

Greetings of Peace...:Grin: im new to color managemet...

I have a laptop, i store and edit my images here...
im using lightroom and cs3...

when i finish post processing my photos, i remember about the color management thing, so i copy the jpeg photo and view it on other computer (pc with crt monitor),
and my beautiful photo turns into an ugly one...hehe the colors are not the same..

i need help guys... :Grin:

I can't afford a spyder...

i hear the adobe gamma.cpl, so i downloaded it and use it..

is adobe gamma a color calibrator? or only a color profile creator?

TIA :Grin:

At the end of the day, you'll still need the Spyder. You could use the Spyder to calibrate and profile the display of your laptop. But you will also have to calibrate and profile the display of the other computers you will use to view the same image.

Adobe Gamma doesn't work well. I tried it. I used to like it. I THOUGHT I was getting good results with it. After I got a Spyder, I realized the results I was getting with Adobe Gamma couldn't even come close to what I was getting by using a Spyder.

The Spyder2 Express costs P5,500.00. You can use it to calibrate and profile more than one computer display (if you own or use more than one computer).

Cheers!

Jo Avila

PhillipBiboso

05-20-2009, 09:05 AM

thanks jo... apir!

janetrodriguez

05-20-2009, 02:12 PM

Jo Avila

05-21-2009, 03:09 AM

Sir Jo,

I finally got the colors right in print using Digiprint's color profile and the steps you shared on the proof setup in CS3. Now, what I see in my Spyder calibrated monitor is what I get in print. Thanks so much for the help!

No problem :D

Getting the Spyder is also a good first step.

Studying a bit on color management helps you get closer to achieving better results :D

Cheers!

Jo Avila

michaelagar

06-07-2009, 08:58 AM

I'm planning to buy the Spyder 2 Express, any feedback with this calibration device?

Jo Avila

06-07-2009, 07:26 PM

I'm planning to buy the Spyder 2 Express, any feedback with this calibration device?

It works :D

The Spyder2 Express will allow you to cailbrate and profile your computer monitor.

It's actually a software and hardware package.

Cheers!

Jo Avila

Princess Jarlyn Young

06-07-2009, 07:38 PM

Just wanna ask, if anybody experienced this.

After calibrating your monitor.. it goes back to it's old color after about 10sec. Tried uninstalling and installing again, but still the same result.

Jo Avila

06-07-2009, 08:10 PM

Just wanna ask, if anybody experienced this.

After calibrating your monitor.. it goes back to it's old color after about 10sec. Tried uninstalling and installing again, but still the same result.

Yup. That sometimes happens.

Try the following steps. I got them via email a long time ago from Nick Tuason :D

===================

Since some of the display cards is not allowing custom-made monitor
profile to be stored in the corresponding location, for that case,
user need
to manually assign it by doing the following steps

1. Right-click on the desktop
2. Select Properties
3. Select Setting tab
4. Select Advanced tab
5. Select Color Management tab
6. Select the Add button and point to the profile just created and
confirm it.

Then the profile can be defaulted and used. You can confirm it by
clicking the Profile Chooser and see if the profile has been selected as
default.

=================

Cheers!

Jo Avila

winxzpascual

06-09-2009, 08:40 AM

It works :D

The Spyder2 Express will allow you to cailbrate and profile your computer monitor.

It's actually a software and hardware package.

Cheers!

Jo Avila

how much is the spyder2 express and where to buy that here in manila?
planning to buy one soon.

thanks

Jo Avila

06-09-2009, 11:03 AM

how much is the spyder2 express and where to buy that here in manila?
planning to buy one soon.

thanks

Send a PM to Nick Tuason or Nino Carandang here in DPP Forum if you wish to purchase a Spyder2 Express.

The Spyder2 Express costs P5.5k.

Cheers!

Jo Avila

winxzpascual

06-09-2009, 01:09 PM

Send a PM to Nick Tuason or Nino Carandang here in DPP Forum if you wish to purchase a Spyder2 Express.

The Spyder2 Express costs P5.5k.

Cheers!

Jo Avila

thanks.

unfortunately, they are out of stock of spyder2 express. :( :( :(

anyone can help me calibrate my monitor for the meantime.

any help is highly appreciated. :D

CocoyLopez

06-18-2009, 11:08 AM

Yup. That sometimes happens.

Try the following steps. I got them via email a long time ago from Nick Tuason :D

===================

Since some of the display cards is not allowing custom-made monitor
profile to be stored in the corresponding location, for that case,
user need
to manually assign it by doing the following steps

1. Right-click on the desktop
2. Select Properties
3. Select Setting tab
4. Select Advanced tab
5. Select Color Management tab
6. Select the Add button and point to the profile just created and
confirm it.

Then the profile can be defaulted and used. You can confirm it by
clicking the Profile Chooser and see if the profile has been selected as
default.

=================

Cheers!

Jo Avila

And too add based on experience too, delete other profiles and leave only the Spyder so there will be no issue of going back to pre-calibrated state. :)

RonaldoSantiago

07-08-2009, 01:55 PM

Jo Avila

07-08-2009, 05:28 PM

Sir! im using Adobe RGB color space setting in my DSLR. so it means i have to set my graphic editing softwares (Aperture, Lightroom, Photoshop etc? to adobe RGB? How do I do that?

If we don't have monitor calibrating devices, how we can achieve at least the nearest output calibrated monitors can display or in printing.

Does the color workspace in PS, Aperture or Lightroom have to match the color profile of the images produced by your DSLR?

Nope :D You could change your color settings in PS by going to Edit>Color Settings. But the color workspace doesn't have to match the color profile of your images.

What to do if you don't own a device like the Spyder?

I've been down this route before. I've tried using Adobe Gamma or similar software based solutions that require eyeballing the computer monitor to adjust them. I thought I was getting good results. It was only after I studied a bit of color management and started working with calibrated and profiled computer monitors did I realize that the software based "calibrating" solutions never really worked properly with accuracy.

It has been suggested that you have the photo lab that you patronize print a test image "as is" without any corrections on the part of the lab technician. Afterwards, you would have to adjust your computer monitor to closely match the test print.

But this isn't really a good option. You're still guessing and your option to printing is limited to one photo lab.

I teach color management to my basic photography students. Color management is supposed to allow you to reproduce the image as faithfully as possible regardless of where you get it printed (i.e. photo lab, inkjet printer, etc.).

My advice is to save up for a Spyder and study a bit of basic color management.

Cheers!

Jo Avila

RonaldoSantiago

07-10-2009, 12:00 PM

thank you sir Jo.

raymond rico

07-13-2009, 09:12 PM

I want to know, how can i achieve this kind of color effect on this pic. any ideas?

http://img530.imageshack.us/i/347614008303ef2735b2b.jpg/%5D%5BIMG%5Dhttp://img530.imageshack.us/img530/9503/347614008303ef2735b2b.jpg%5B/IMG%5D%5B/URL%5D

David Tong

07-13-2009, 09:39 PM

Raymond, that's not a color management question, please post in the appropriate section or start a new thread.

Jo Avila

07-14-2009, 07:13 AM

It's a common fallacy to mistake color correction for color management and vice versa.

@ Rico

Please start a new thread in the appropriate section of the forum :D

Cheers!

Jo Avila

benjietiongco

08-06-2009, 01:36 AM

Color Calibration Question:

I used the Monaco Optix XR to calibrate a 15.4 inch Toshiba laptop which was obviously bluish in color. I managed to calibrate it.

I understand that it doesn't have any adjustment for contrast and that's why the blacks and colors are not as solid compared to a crt. But is there any existing software or way to add contrast? The only way I do is to tilt the screen backwards. Thus, changing the view. Hehe. Well this is not my main question yet. Here it goes..

My question is on the colors. Colors looked fine after calibration. I just think that the colors have a little bit of red hue or I think that the red is too much. Blue skies look like they have a bit of red or purple tinge, just a bit though. Is there any way to exactly check whether my calibration was correct or wrong?

Here's the current profile.

Target Point - 7000k x=0.306 y=0.317 (I don't why but 5,500 is extremely warm in which 7500 and above is colder. Opposite to that of DSLR Kelvin)
Black Luminance - 0.68 cd/m2
White Luminance - 125.12 cd/m2

benjietiongco

08-06-2009, 01:37 AM

Thanks in advance to sir Jo and to others who will help me out.

:D

Jo Avila

08-06-2009, 10:42 AM

The best and most accurate devices and software for monitor calibration and profiling are still limited by the computer monitor that you use :D

LCDs are limited by their viewing angles (a CRT doesn't have a narrow viewing angle as compared to most LCDs).

Your DSLR uses Kelvin.

Your computer monitor is set to a whitepoint (that's different from Kelvin but there are similarities).

Your DSLR compensates for color cast. For example, a light source that has a low color temperature is yellowish. Your DSLR has to add more blue to the image to COMPENSATE for the yellowish cast.

Setting your computer monitor's whitepoint to D65 (I know that most computer softwares call it 6500k. But it's really D65.) makes it show you how the color white should appear under a Daylight Illuminant with a color temperature of 6500k.

Kelvin is a range of colors. Whitepoint is a specific color.

I think that your whitepoint setting is off. Change it to a lower setting (i.e. D65 or what your computer software refers to as 6500k).

The way the image looks on your computer monitor may not be to suit your taste. But what is important at this point is to make how your computer monitor previews images more accurate.

Cheers!

Jo Avila

Color Calibration Question:

I used the Monaco Optix XR to calibrate a 15.4 inch Toshiba laptop which was obviously bluish in color. I managed to calibrate it.

I understand that it doesn't have any adjustment for contrast and that's why the blacks and colors are not as solid compared to a crt. But is there any existing software or way to add contrast? The only way I do is to tilt the screen backwards. Thus, changing the view. Hehe. Well this is not my main question yet. Here it goes..

My question is on the colors. Colors looked fine after calibration. I just think that the colors have a little bit of red hue or I think that the red is too much. Blue skies look like they have a bit of red or purple tinge, just a bit though. Is there any way to exactly check whether my calibration was correct or wrong?

Here's the current profile.

Target Point - 7000k x=0.306 y=0.317 (I don't why but 5,500 is extremely warm in which 7500 and above is colder. Opposite to that of DSLR Kelvin)
Black Luminance - 0.68 cd/m2
White Luminance - 125.12 cd/m2

JB_Delgado

08-23-2009, 10:59 PM

Jo Avila

08-24-2009, 06:57 AM

Sir Jo, I will post my question here

I found the answer to my inquiry in yellowish skin tone in LR and PS. The only thing i did was setting the monitor's color profile to sRGB Color Space Profile and when i re-open the LR and PS the skin tone is much closer in DPP. But when i go to Datacolor > Profile chooser and select the latest profile, it goes yellowish again.

Any idea folks on why is this occurring??

Why are you setting the monitor's color profile to sRGB?

You're supposed to use the display profile created by the Spyder.

DPP recognizes Picture Styles. PS and LR will only do so if you have loaded the appropriate camera profiles.

You calibrate and profile your display to make it more accurate.

You don't calibrate and profile the display to make it more pleasing to your eyes (so stop choosing sRGB as your display profile :D).

Cheers!

Jo Avila

redrivera

11-10-2009, 06:28 AM

Jo Avila

11-10-2009, 07:39 AM

Good day, Sir Jo!

I have recently acquired a spyder2express with which to calibrate and profile my monitor (lcd;acer4937g laptop). I have followed the pointers in this forum but I'm still having trouble.

I have seen the colors of my monitor shift toward the warm side and this is all fine for me...the problem arises when I open a photo in photoshop/captureone/lightroom. The skin tone of people in my photos appear too yellow and I find myself dragging the white balance down to 800 just to get things right (or worse, still yellow, even at that setting)...

other details:
I've set my working RGB to sRGB IEC61966-2.1
Windows Color System has spyder2express as its default device profile

Am I doing something wrong?

Hmmm ... my guess is that your eyes is still getting used to working with a properly calibrated and profiled display.

Monitors tend to be bluish straight from the factory.

OR, your light source during the shoot was really yellowish in color :D

OR, your subjects really have a yellowish skin tone.

OR, you were shooting in a mixed lighting situation.

Cheers!

Jo Avila

Jo Avila

11-10-2009, 11:07 AM

Hmmm ... my guess is that your eyes is still getting used to working with a properly calibrated and profiled display.

Monitors tend to be bluish straight from the factory.

OR, your light source during the shoot was really yellowish in color :D

OR, your subjects really have a yellowish skin tone.

OR, you were shooting in a mixed lighting situation.

Cheers!

Jo Avila

Can you post a reference image (the image that you find too yellowish)?

Make sure the image is in the color space of sRGB.

Cheers!

Jo Avila

ferdinandbasilio

11-10-2009, 11:19 AM

To all members of DPP,
The conversation of Sir Red and Sir Jo is perfect example of color communication. Sir Jo is asking a post of picture of Sir Red to be able to understand what Sir Red is talking about. We need to undertand the ff:
1. that our eyes is also a device dependent in a form of RGB
2. Color memory, color desciption, what is yellow to you maybe orange to other.
both are physiological aspects of color vision

Thanks to Sir Jo Avila for explaining everything.
Keep it up Sir Jo!

redrivera

11-11-2009, 02:05 AM

Can you post a reference image (the image that you find too yellowish)?

Make sure the image is in the color space of sRGB.

Cheers!

Jo Avila

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk166/beeftapa/20090917_9312.jpg
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk166/beeftapa/Untitled-1.jpg

I'm severely slowed down by having to deal with this in PP. I wish I could dig up a photo that did not hit any of your guesses. This behavior also shows in photos lit entirely by flash where I'm sure I've killed the ambient. Let me look for those :D

Jo Avila

11-11-2009, 09:08 AM

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk166/beeftapa/20090917_9312.jpg
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk166/beeftapa/Untitled-1.jpg

I'm severely slowed down by having to deal with this in PP. I wish I could dig up a photo that did not hit any of your guesses. This behavior also shows in photos lit entirely by flash where I'm sure I've killed the ambient. Let me look for those :D

The top photo looks okay to me (but a bit too dark for my taste).

The second image does look yellowish.

I'll assume you shot this image with a mix of on camera flash and ambient light.

Take a look at the shadow of the guitarist's left arm on the guitar. Take note of the direction the shadow is falling. The shadow shouldn't be falling in that direction if it was lit by a on camera flash.

That shadow was most likely produced by ambient light from the stage lighting. Looks like a bit of ambient light got mixed into your shot. That's probably why this particular shot looks yellowish.

You shot this with with an exposure setting of f/2.8, 1/15 at an ISO of 400. Your big opening, slow shutter speed and relatively high ISO all contributed to allowing the ambient light to be captured in this shot.

The exif of your shot tells me that your flash did fire. But the color cast of the ambient lighting still produced the dominant color cast in your shot.

[BTW, my guess is that this shot is a bit underexposed because you used evaluative metering. Try using center-weighted average metering and take a meter reading from the face of the subject.]

Was the original source image shot in camera RAW of JPEG?

Cheers!

Jo Avila

Winston Baltasar

11-11-2009, 09:59 AM

Red, another possibility, which Jo pointed pointed out to me during his Color Management seminar, is that you have a new camera and you haven't downloaded the driver for that for Adobe Photoshop/Lightroom.

redrivera

11-11-2009, 11:26 AM

@Sir Jo - ...let me dig up a photo that is more demonstrative of what I'm complaining about...or better yet, I'll take a new one tonight!

@Sir Winston - I'm using a Canon 400D

looks like I need to view my photos in another system with a properly calibrated and profiled monitor to rule out the possibility that something went wrong during the calibration process of my monitor...I am aware that different monitors will not look exactly the same but if the same strong yellow cast is very prevalent then I would have to concede to the fact that it is caused by operator error.

redrivera

11-11-2009, 11:47 AM

Jo Avila

11-11-2009, 03:01 PM

Jo Avila

11-11-2009, 03:12 PM

how about this: taken purely with natural light

the image:
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk166/beeftapa/IMG_6656.jpg
what I see on my monitor:
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk166/beeftapa/Untitled-2.jpg

Same thing as the first set of images.

Top photo looks okay.

Second photo looks yellowish.

Hmm ... can you please check something for me?

Go to your color settings in Photoshop (Edit>Color Settings).

Go to Working Spaces>RGB. Click on the tab in the field beside it.

Check if the profile from the Spyder2 Express is indicated as the monitor RGB.

(Don't set your Workspace to the monitor RGB. I just need to know if the Spyder2 Express display profile is loaded properly in your system).

Cheers!

Jo Avila

Jo Avila

11-11-2009, 04:44 PM

@ Red

I think I'm overlooking something ... :D

You said that you recently acquired your Spyder2 Express.

Was it a brand new unit or a second hand unit?

(I noticed that some of the guys in the other forums are disposing of their old Spyder2 Express units :D).

Cheers!

Jo Avila

ruel landrito

11-11-2009, 08:29 PM

Jo Avila

11-11-2009, 09:10 PM

Sir Jo,

Sorry for the ignorance, but would it make any difference if you got a new one or a second hand Spyder2?

Yes and no.

No. It shouldn't make a difference.

Yes. I would make a difference :D

Let's wait for Red to answer my query before I make any further comments :D

Cheers!

Jo Avila

redrivera

11-15-2009, 02:09 PM

Hmm ... can you please check something for me?

Go to your color settings in Photoshop (Edit>Color Settings).

Go to Working Spaces>RGB. Click on the tab in the field beside it.

Check if the profile from the Spyder2 Express is indicated as the monitor RGB.

(Don't set your Workspace to the monitor RGB. I just need to know if the Spyder2 Express display profile is loaded properly in your system).

Cheers!

Jo Avila

Sorry for the lack of a speedy reply...been a bit busy :Grin:

here are screenies:

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk166/beeftapa/Untitled-2-1.jpg

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk166/beeftapa/Untitled-1-1.jpg

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk166/beeftapa/Untitled-3.jpg

and regarding the other concern, it's brand new. I got it from JTPhoto. :)

redrivera

11-15-2009, 02:10 PM

is it what I think it is? double loading? D:

update: I tried setting srgb as the device profile and spyder2express still loads as expected...it solved the double loading problem, the yellow color cast is weaker but the colors are still off O_O

the reds look hyper:

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk166/beeftapa/IMG_0973.jpg

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk166/beeftapa/Untitled-2-2.jpg

is it possible that the colorimeter is defective? and just to rule out the possibility of outdated software, I'm running spyder2express 2.3.6...

Jo Avila

11-15-2009, 08:54 PM

@ Red

Are you free on Tuesday afternoon (November 17, 230pm-6pm)? Can you pass by my studio in Greenhills? Bring your laptop and Spyder2. I want to check something for myself :D

BTW, do you have an inkjet printer?

Send me a PM.

@ Everyone else

Don't worry. I'll post the results of what I find out after Red makes it to my studio. :D

Cheers!

Jo Avila

redrivera

11-18-2009, 12:27 AM

Jo Avila

11-18-2009, 12:39 AM

Sir Jo:

I've tried delaying the profiling during startup but it didn't solve the problem.

I've also tried calibrating and profiling my other laptop and surprisingly, it exhibits the same behavior as you saw yesterday. That brings us to two final suspects:

a. a defective colorimeter
b. windows 7's WCS

There is no fogging in the filter of your Spyder2 Express.

My wild guess is that it MIGHT be window &'s WCS. :D

Cheers!

Jo Avila

redrivera

11-18-2009, 01:28 PM

update: I've tried the ColorEyes software, it's basically a 4th-party software (haha) that utilizes the spyder 2 colorimeter. not surprisingly, the profile it came up with is identical to the one created by the spyder2 software.

I've also tried disabling any automatic profile loading at startup THEN manually loading through the ProfileChooser...to no avail.

I've dug through forums everywhere and people HAVE successfully calibrated and profiled their displays with spyder2 on their Windows7-run systems--without having to go through any workarounds.

I don't know what to do next anymore.

Luds Lim

11-26-2009, 09:15 AM

hi. saw a screenshot of your WCS. i noticed that advanced>windows color system defaults you choose the spyder profile. I think it will be better to revert it back to its default which is srgb. For the rest of the setup check this out http://7fttallrussian.blogspot.com/2009/10/monitor-calibration-on-windows-7.html

redrivera

11-26-2009, 10:28 AM

hi. saw a screenshot of your WCS. i noticed that advanced>windows color system defaults you choose the spyder profile. I think it will be better to revert it back to its default which is srgb.

yes, I figured that out already..it helped but there's still something wrong :(

will check out your link! thanks :)

Luds Lim

11-26-2009, 11:30 PM

no problem. hopefully it solves your problem. let us know how it turns out.

dukeylaya

11-27-2009, 11:22 AM

hello guys, i have basic question. what color space should i use when shooting? aRGB or sRGB? thanks..

Jo Avila

11-29-2009, 07:26 AM

hello guys, i have basic question. what color space should i use when shooting? aRGB or sRGB? thanks..

The logic espoused by some is that its very easy to compress a larger color space (i.e. Adobe RGB) to fit a smaller one (i.e sRGB).

My general rule is use sRGB if its for the web, for printing at the one hour photo lab or if the image will be viewed using programs that don't recognize color profiles (i.e. most web browsers, Microsoft viewer, powerpoint, etc.).

Use Adobe RGB if you want the flexibility of a larger color space or if the images will be sent to the printing press.

Cheers!

Jo Avila

dukeylaya

11-29-2009, 10:47 AM

The logic espoused by some is that its very easy to compress a larger color space (i.e. Adobe RGB) to fit a smaller one (i.e sRGB).

My general rule is use sRGB if its for the web, for printing at the one hour photo lab or if the image will be viewed using programs that don't recognize color profiles (i.e. most web browsers, Microsoft viewer, powerpoint, etc.).

Use Adobe RGB if you want the flexibility of a larger color space or if the images will be sent to the printing press.

Cheers!

Jo Avila

ah.. thank you sir..how can i maintain the color of sRGB images in printing and. i like the colors when i looking in my DSLR's LCD. when using CS3 what color working space should i use? aRGB or sRGB?

Jo Avila

11-29-2009, 12:49 PM

ah.. thank you sir..how can i maintain the color of sRGB images in printing and. i like the colors when i looking in my DSLR's LCD. when using CS3 what color working space should i use? aRGB or sRGB?

Don't trust the LCD. It isn't infallible. :D

I would recommend using the search function of the forum for your query regarding color workspace. We already have had prior in depth discussions regarding this topic.

Check this out:

http://digitalphotographer.com.ph/forum/showthread.php?t=520

HTH

Cheers!

Jo Avila

dukeylaya

11-30-2009, 09:03 AM

Don't trust the LCD. It isn't infallible. :D

I would recommend using the search function of the forum for your query regarding color workspace. We already have had prior in depth discussions regarding this topic.

Check this out:

http://digitalphotographer.com.ph/forum/showthread.php?t=520

HTH

Cheers!

Jo Avila

thanks sir.. well appreciated.. hehe...:)

JB_Delgado

01-19-2010, 08:14 PM

to those who usually share their images through web. does your photo in PS the same(colors, vibrance) when you view it in web? i got this problem since i started photography and i can't get it right.

i have the spyder profile loaded by default by adobe photoshop(Monitor RGB- Spyder 3 )01052010
i got sRGB as my workspace and sRGB as my photo's colorspace.

you can click here to see what i mean (http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4030/4287902292_1a43dd420c_b.jpg)

some might say that im comparing raw files with jpeg files.
we'll heres a the screenie of the same file comparison when viewed with photo viewer and PS CS4 (http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4018/4287458305_63cbe9cd89_b.jpg)

I think i have the same problem with red rivera.

Jo Avila

01-20-2010, 12:37 AM

JB_Delgado

01-21-2010, 12:16 AM

after several calibration and profiling I decided to give my PC the last resort, a reformat. It did solve the problem, the photos in PS and photo viewer are now identical PLUS I finally have a Windows 7 installed. :Grin: And oh, Im not saying that it is the only solution(and you should opt for this) for guys who has the same problem like mine, but hey, it did solve the problem.

DerrickYap

01-26-2010, 09:05 PM

Jo Avila

01-26-2010, 11:43 PM

Hi,

I think I'm having the same problem as redrivera. I calibrated and profiled my laptop using spyder2express. When viewing images using windows picture viewer, my images looks almost the same, color wise, as seen on my SLRs LCD, but upon transferring images to PS CS3, my images tends to be somewhat yellowish and more on the "hipon" skin tone by default.

Here are my settings:
WINDOWS::: display>settings>advance>color management> Profile: spydercalibrated
PS CS3::: edit>color settings> RGB:sRGB IEC61966-2.1
my monitor RGB is set to spydercalibrated

tried playin with the assign profile option on CS3 and my images reverts to "normal" colors when converted to spydercalibrated profile and tends to be yellowish on sRGB profile.

so my question is which is which?

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4038/4306592414_ace7a424ca.jpg

Assigning the profile doesn't convert it.

Assigning the color profile changes only the color profile but not the RGB values of the colors.

Converting the color profile changes both the color space of the image and the RGB values of the colors.

The display color profile created by the Spyder2 express should only be used as the display profile. Nothing else.

It shouldn't be used as the color workspace in Photoshop.

Neither should it be used as a destination color space when converting color profiles.

Microsoft viewer can only be used to view images that are in the color space of sRGB.

You won't get an accurate preview with Microsoft viewer if you images are in Adobe RGB.

(By the way, it doesn't necessarily follow that an image is in sRGB if your color workspace is set to sRGB. The color space of the image and your color workspace in PS don't necessarily have to match.)

Please check your images if they are sRGB or Adobe RGB color space (although I already suspect that your reference image is in sRGB based on its file name).

Cheers!

Jo Avila

DerrickYap

01-27-2010, 12:14 PM

Jo Avila

01-27-2010, 12:42 PM

Thanks sir Jo,

my reference image's color space is set to sRGB.
so should i continue Post processing my image on CS3 with those settings and just adjust white balance towards the cooler side to tone down the yellowish colors and test print it?

Yup. Edit the image as best as you can.

Use the softproofing features of PS CS3 to better guide your during PP.

Print. Compare.

Cheers!

Jo Avila

DerrickYap

01-27-2010, 05:22 PM

Jo Avila

01-27-2010, 07:56 PM

Thanks again sir Jo,

btw, i've read an interesting article regarding this color management and correct me if I'm wrong with some of the conclusions i came up

article: http://www.artstorm.net/journal/2009/07/color-management-wide-gamut-dell-2408/

1. The colors I see in CS3 is actually the real colors of an image.
2. PP the image as best as you can and Embed your color profile so others may view it on the same color space as you are, and hope that their image viewer allows color management
3. If intended for WEB, convert to sRGB.

What you see in CS3 still won't be a close match to the print if you don't use the softproofing feature of PS.

You don't have to embed the color profile if the image is just for the web.

You don't have to embed the color profile if the image will be printed at the one hour lab.

Cheers!

Jo Avila

DerrickYap

01-27-2010, 08:18 PM

What you see in CS3 still won't be a close match to the print if you don't use the softproofing feature of PS.

You don't have to embed the color profile if the image is just for the web.

You don't have to embed the color profile if the image will be printed at the one hour lab.

Cheers!

Jo Avila

i see i see, time to setup the selphy and t10 for comparison

Thanks a lot sir Jo

joeygarganera

03-01-2010, 04:13 PM

Hi! can anyone help? How do you match the colors of pictures on my MacBook Pro (using aperture software) to the prints on my Hilti 400 photo printer? prints look dull and foggy. Thank you.

Jo Avila

03-02-2010, 01:25 AM

Hi! can anyone help? How do you match the colors of pictures on my MacBook Pro (using aperture software) to the prints on my Hilti 400 photo printer? prints look dull and foggy. Thank you.

Calibrate and profile the screen of your MBP.

Are you using the color profiles for the HiTi printer?

Cheers!

Jo Avila

robertalmario

04-23-2010, 05:12 PM

Jo Avila

04-23-2010, 11:12 PM

Very informative...

After the post process of my images and i want to send it to any photo lab, do i need to send also the copy of my profile aside of my images?

OT:
Thanks for answering my questions on facebook.

What profile do you intend to send to the photo lab? :D

They can't use your display color profile.

Photo lab machines don't recognize color profiles.

Cheers!

Jo Avila

robertalmario

04-24-2010, 12:04 AM

Jo Avila

04-24-2010, 07:57 AM

I thought I need to send the copy of .ICM from my PC to photolab everytime I send my images for print out. :Grin:

Please guide me the best way and easiest way on how to send my images (processed on my laptop and calibrated by spyder 3) to any photolab. What are the things I need to remember.

Thanks..

The easiest thing to do is:

a) Calibrate and profile your display accurately on a regular basis.

b) Keep all files in sRGB.

c) Send to photo lab for printing.

Cheers!

Jo Avila

ruel landrito

05-08-2010, 09:18 AM

Jo Avila

05-08-2010, 07:34 PM

Sir Jo,

Just one quick question. Are D50 lamps available locally? Where and any idea on the price? From what I heard they roughly cost 2k apiece. Is that right? I'll try to do a calibration as accurate and under controlled lighting as possible.
Thanks for any info.

Ruel

Check out www.ynzal.com :D

I think those are the same lamps that Ynzal had me install at my studio :D

Cheers!

Jo Avila

ruel landrito

05-09-2010, 01:09 PM

thanks sir jo

Jo Avila

05-09-2010, 09:52 PM

thanks sir jo

No problem. The lights that Ynzal had me install at my studio makes life easy for me.

I like to remind my students that its very hard to judge if the image on your computer display and on the print is a good match if the ambient light in your work area is very poor.

Cheers!

Jo Avila

Nick Tuason

05-15-2010, 06:02 AM

ruel landrito

05-15-2010, 07:48 AM

Speaking of lamps Jo. I believe Datacolor / Spyder will be coming out with either lamps or bulbs that have the perfect color temperature for color management. I will rig our entire editing area in the office with these babies. No word yet when but it could be this year. Keep you posted.

now this is good news. thanks sir nick.

Jo Avila

05-15-2010, 08:48 AM

nadiaututalum

06-15-2010, 06:24 PM

ralphchan

06-15-2010, 06:28 PM

uhmm.. quite confuse here, you mean to say, after you have PP your work, then saved it.. it seemed like nothing have change? is that it?

ruel landrito

06-15-2010, 07:17 PM

hey guys,newbie here and just last night I tried using Cs4 for the very first time so hoping you could help me with this.you see,.after PP my shots, i noticed that once i open them using a different application other than bridge or PS,they didn't change at all...well maybe some hue and sat,but the overall image stays almost the same...i cant seem to figure out what went wrong,but i always make sure i have saved them after each editing..does it hav anything to do with my colour preference or something??i don't know guys..im not intending to print my shots,just viewing them on my Lcd will do :):):):) helppppppppppppppp...plz help...plz... big thanx in advance...:Grin::Grin::Grin::Grin:

did you save the image with all the layers active?

Jo Avila

06-16-2010, 05:31 PM

ElizaldE tolEntino

07-13-2010, 05:47 AM

Hi there! what software is best to calibrate monitor? how much and where to buy? thanks.

Jo Avila

07-13-2010, 08:17 AM

Hi there! what software is best to calibrate monitor? how much and where to buy? thanks.

You don't want a software only solution to calibrate and profile your monitor.

You need a software and hardware product like the Spyder3 Express to calibrate and profile your computer monitor.

Please send a PM to Nick Tuason here in DPP forum to inquire about the price and availability of a Spyder3 Express.

Cheers!

Jo Avila

ElizaldE tolEntino

07-13-2010, 12:09 PM

thanks sir

ElizaldE tolEntino

07-13-2010, 07:28 PM

Sir Jo, my monitor is not calibrated yet. Still saving for the Spyder. In my case, softproofing is useless?

Jo Avila

07-14-2010, 07:32 PM

Sir Jo, my monitor is not calibrated yet. Still saving for the Spyder. In my case, softproofing is useless?

You can still activate the softproofing feature of PS even if your monitor isn't calibrated.

But, it won't be accurate if your monitor isn't properly calibrated and profiled accurately on a regular basis.

Yup, it's pretty much useless. All that you would be doing at this point is trying to see how the print will look on an computer display that is inaccurate.

The most basic first step in a color managed post processing workflow is to calibrate and profile the display.

This point has been raised in a different section here in DPP forum.

A lot of photographers ask for the color profiles of different print suppliers (i.e. Digiprint). However, their computer displays aren't calibrated and profiled.

Possessing and using the printer's color profile will not magically make the print match your screen if the computer display is inaccurate :D

HTH.

Cheers!

Jo Avila

ElizaldE tolEntino

07-14-2010, 07:38 PM

thanks sir Jo

Eric Pabelina

08-04-2010, 09:12 PM

Hi Sir Jo.

I’ve been back reading this thread, and starting to grasp color management. I’m a newbie, BTW, so be patient on me Sir Jo. :) I just want to confirm if my understanding is right, or I still need more explanations. :)

Workflow

I calibrated AND profiled my display with the Spyder3express. I’ve followed every step needed to do the activity successfully, and it was successful.

My question, basically, is related on the CS4 part. My DSLR’s color space is set to sRGB and I’m shooting in raw.

How will I set/calibrate my CS4 to produce photo for 1) Web and 2) For Printing (Home Use)? Or maybe, what I’m asking are the workflows for web and for printing?

Feel free to correct me anytime.

Web Workflow

1. Open the image you want to edit in Photoshop.
2. Assign your camera profile to the image
(Image→ Mode→ Assign Profile). Mine is set to RGB Color / 8 Bits/Channel
3. Convert the image to a suitable editing color space.
(Edit→ Color Settings→ Working Spaces) Mine is set to sRGB IEC61966-2.1 or should I set it to adobeRGB? Gray = Gray Gamma 2.2? CMYK = U.S Web Coated (SWOP) v2 ? About the Color Management Policies, is the RGB really set to Off? CMYK and Gray are set to Preserve embedded Profiles in mine.

4. Edit until satisfied.
5. Save the file.

For the printing, i think i'm slowly trying to understand what you're saying here in your post. :Grin:

TIA Sir Jo!

I ain't pissed. When I said infuriated I was poking fun at how often I have encountered the same questions. Which is why I said "LOL!" and added a smiley :D

Okay, let's take it from the top.

You calibrate AND profile your display with the Spyder.

You'll first have to warm up your display for a prerequisite amount of time. This depends on whether you are using an LCD or a CRT display monitor. The Spyder software should give you the recommended minimum amount of time.

This is also the minimum amount of time you should wait the next time you edit images on your computer.

The Spyder software should guide you regarding what gamma, whitepoint and screen brightness/contrast or luminance settings to you. This is the part where you are calibrating your display.

The Spyder software will then instruct you to place the Spyder hardware on a certain area on your display. The Spyder software will then generate different patches of color that the hardware will use to help the whole system generate a description of the color behavior of your display. This is the part of the process know as profiling.

Your system should then load the newly generated display profile if all works well.

I prefer as much as possible that there is no direct light hitting my display.

It is okay for the screensaver to come on while you are warming up the display.

It is NOT okay for the screensaver to come on while you are profiling the display.

NEITHER is it okay for the display monitor to sleep while you are warming up the display or profiling it.

Open the image you want to edit in Photoshop. You then have to ask yourself where will you be printing the image. You have to do this because your choice of printer and paper will determine the color profile you will have to select for softproofing.

You don't specify the display profile for softproof settings because you don't edit an image to look good on your screen.

You don't use the display profile as a color workspace because it is a device specific color profile. Using a device specific color profile as your color workspace makes it unstable.

You will have to redo the whole process of calibrating and profiling if you change any of your display settings (i.e. Screen pixel dimensions, color bit depth, brightness/contrast, gamma, whitepoint, etc.)

Let's just say for example that you will be printing on the Canon Pixma Pro9000 using Canon Everyday Glossy Photo paper. The color profile for this would be Canon Pro9000 SG1.

In Photoshop, you go to View>Proof Setup>Custom.

Under Device to Simulate choose the profile of Canon Pro9000 SG1.

Afterwards, you will have to specify your rendering intent (i.e Perceptual, Relative Colorimetric, Saturation, Absolute Colorimetric).

Check Black Point Compensation.

Click on OK.

Softproofing will then be turned on.

Edit the image based on the Softproof.

Afterwards (if you are using Photoshop CS3), go to File>Print.

Go to Page Setup and select the printer and paper size/orientation.

Under Color Handling, choose Photoshop Manages Colors.

Specify the same printer profile and rendering intent you used for soft proofing.

Check Black Point Compensation.

Click on Print.

Under Quality & Media, select the paper type that was the basis for your softproof settings.

Choose Best Quality Print settings.

Go to Color Options and set Color Correction to None or Off.

Click Print.

You should be working with 3-4 different color profiles or color spaces during this process:

1) The display profile which describes the color behavior of your display.

2) The color workspace you have specified in Photoshop (i.e. Adobe RGB, sRGB, etc.)

3) The embedded/assigned/tagged/enabled color profile of the digital image that you are editing (this is your source color space).

4) The color profile for the printer and the paper (this is your destination color space).

This basic workflow will apply to images that have to be printed at the color lab.

But you will have to go to Edit>Convert to Profile before you save the file and send it off to the photo lab (i.e. Digiprint). You will have to use and specify the color profiles provided for by the photo lab (i.e. Digiprint).

Cheers!

Jo Avila

P.S.

Okay na ba tayo diyan? :D

Eric Pabelina

08-04-2010, 09:15 PM

Hi Sir Jo.

I’ve been back reading this thread, and starting to grasp color management. I’m a newbie, BTW, so be patient on me Sir Jo. :) I just want to confirm if my understanding is right, or I still need more explanations. :)

Workflow

I calibrated AND profiled my display with the Spyder3express. I’ve followed every step needed to do the activity successfully, and it was successful.

My question, basically, is related on the CS4 part. My DSLR’s color space is set to sRGB and I’m shooting in raw.

How will I set/calibrate my CS4 to produce photo for 1) Web and 2) For Printing (Home Use)? Or maybe, what I’m asking are the workflows for web and for printing?

Feel free to correct me anytime.

Web Workflow

1. Open the image you want to edit in Photoshop.
2. Assign your camera profile to the image
(Image→ Mode→ Assign Profile). Mine is set to RGB Color / 8 Bits/Channel
3. Convert the image to a suitable editing color space.
(Edit→ Color Settings→ Working Spaces) Mine is set to sRGB IEC61966-2.1 or should I set it to adobeRGB? Gray = Gray Gamma 2.2? CMYK = U.S Web Coated (SWOP) v2 ? About the Color Management Policies, is the RGB really set to Off? CMYK and Gray are set to Preserve embedded Profiles in mine.

4. Edit until satisfied.
5. Save the file.

For the printing, i think i'm slowly trying to understand what you're saying here in your post. :Grin:

I have more follow up questions later, I hope i'm not taking so much of your time!:Grin:

TIA Sir Jo!

I ain't pissed. When I said infuriated I was poking fun at how often I have encountered the same questions. Which is why I said "LOL!" and added a smiley :D

Okay, let's take it from the top.

You calibrate AND profile your display with the Spyder.

You'll first have to warm up your display for a prerequisite amount of time. This depends on whether you are using an LCD or a CRT display monitor. The Spyder software should give you the recommended minimum amount of time.

This is also the minimum amount of time you should wait the next time you edit images on your computer.

The Spyder software should guide you regarding what gamma, whitepoint and screen brightness/contrast or luminance settings to you. This is the part where you are calibrating your display.

The Spyder software will then instruct you to place the Spyder hardware on a certain area on your display. The Spyder software will then generate different patches of color that the hardware will use to help the whole system generate a description of the color behavior of your display. This is the part of the process know as profiling.

Your system should then load the newly generated display profile if all works well.

I prefer as much as possible that there is no direct light hitting my display.

It is okay for the screensaver to come on while you are warming up the display.

It is NOT okay for the screensaver to come on while you are profiling the display.

NEITHER is it okay for the display monitor to sleep while you are warming up the display or profiling it.

Open the image you want to edit in Photoshop. You then have to ask yourself where will you be printing the image. You have to do this because your choice of printer and paper will determine the color profile you will have to select for softproofing.

You don't specify the display profile for softproof settings because you don't edit an image to look good on your screen.

You don't use the display profile as a color workspace because it is a device specific color profile. Using a device specific color profile as your color workspace makes it unstable.

You will have to redo the whole process of calibrating and profiling if you change any of your display settings (i.e. Screen pixel dimensions, color bit depth, brightness/contrast, gamma, whitepoint, etc.)

Let's just say for example that you will be printing on the Canon Pixma Pro9000 using Canon Everyday Glossy Photo paper. The color profile for this would be Canon Pro9000 SG1.

In Photoshop, you go to View>Proof Setup>Custom.

Under Device to Simulate choose the profile of Canon Pro9000 SG1.

Afterwards, you will have to specify your rendering intent (i.e Perceptual, Relative Colorimetric, Saturation, Absolute Colorimetric).

Check Black Point Compensation.

Click on OK.

Softproofing will then be turned on.

Edit the image based on the Softproof.

Afterwards (if you are using Photoshop CS3), go to File>Print.

Go to Page Setup and select the printer and paper size/orientation.

Under Color Handling, choose Photoshop Manages Colors.

Specify the same printer profile and rendering intent you used for soft proofing.

Check Black Point Compensation.

Click on Print.

Under Quality & Media, select the paper type that was the basis for your softproof settings.

Choose Best Quality Print settings.

Go to Color Options and set Color Correction to None or Off.

Click Print.

You should be working with 3-4 different color profiles or color spaces during this process:

1) The display profile which describes the color behavior of your display.

2) The color workspace you have specified in Photoshop (i.e. Adobe RGB, sRGB, etc.)

3) The embedded/assigned/tagged/enabled color profile of the digital image that you are editing (this is your source color space).

4) The color profile for the printer and the paper (this is your destination color space).

This basic workflow will apply to images that have to be printed at the color lab.

But you will have to go to Edit>Convert to Profile before you save the file and send it off to the photo lab (i.e. Digiprint). You will have to use and specify the color profiles provided for by the photo lab (i.e. Digiprint).

Cheers!

Jo Avila

P.S.

Okay na ba tayo diyan? :D

Jo Avila

08-04-2010, 10:28 PM

You got most of it wrong. Not all of it - just most of it :D

The color space setting of your camera won't matter if you shoot in RAW.

You can always specify which color space the image will be encoded to during RAW post processing and conversion.

You don't have to use the assign profile command in PS if you already specified it during RAW conversion.

Keep all files in sRGB if you will be using it for the web. Period. You don't even have to embed the color profile when you save the image if the image will just be used for the web.

I prefer to use North America Prepress2 as my color settings in PS.

BTW, IMO, I don't think that using a Spyder will help if the image will just be used for web purposes. Not everyone who will view the image on the web practices color management. Neither do they calibrate and profile their computer displays accurately on a regular basis. The image will probably look good on your computer screen. But there is no real guarantee that will look just as good on other computer screens when viewed on the web.

(I usually like to tell people to edit their images as best as they can on their calibrated displays and upload it to the web. Afterwards, I encourage them to go to an internet cafe in the Mall and view the same image with the computers there :D).

You won't reap the full benefits of using a Spyder, IMO, until you start post processing your images specifically for printing :D

Cheers!

Jo Avila

Hi Sir Jo.

I’ve been back reading this thread, and starting to grasp color management. I’m a newbie, BTW, so be patient on me Sir Jo. :) I just want to confirm if my understanding is right, or I still need more explanations. :)

Workflow

I calibrated AND profiled my display with the Spyder3express. I’ve followed every step needed to do the activity successfully, and it was successful.

My question, basically, is related on the CS4 part. My DSLR’s color space is set to sRGB and I’m shooting in raw.

How will I set/calibrate my CS4 to produce photo for 1) Web and 2) For Printing (Home Use)? Or maybe, what I’m asking are the workflows for web and for printing?

Feel free to correct me anytime.

Web Workflow

1. Open the image you want to edit in Photoshop.
2. Assign your camera profile to the image
(Image→ Mode→ Assign Profile). Mine is set to RGB Color / 8 Bits/Channel
3. Convert the image to a suitable editing color space.
(Edit→ Color Settings→ Working Spaces) Mine is set to sRGB IEC61966-2.1 or should I set it to adobeRGB? Gray = Gray Gamma 2.2? CMYK = U.S Web Coated (SWOP) v2 ? About the Color Management Policies, is the RGB really set to Off? CMYK and Gray are set to Preserve embedded Profiles in mine.

4. Edit until satisfied.
5. Save the file.

For the printing, i think i'm slowly trying to understand what you're saying here in your post. :Grin:

TIA Sir Jo!

Eric Pabelina

08-04-2010, 10:41 PM

Patrick.Te Seng

08-04-2010, 11:01 PM

@Jo reading through this thread reminded me of the color management questions I was asking in your studio last Monday. :D

(I usually like to tell people to edit their images as best as they can on their calibrated displays and upload it to the web. Afterwards, I encourage them to go to an internet cafe in the Mall and view the same image with the computers there http://www.digitalphotographer.com.ph/forum/images/smilies/Drogar-Laugh%28DBG%29.gif).

I "proof" my internet-uploaded pics by changing the color profile being used on my Mac back to "Color LCD". hahaha

Jo Avila

08-04-2010, 11:24 PM

Thank you Sir Jo for that comment :Grin:

Well, I will print my photos eventually. I will just have to buy one first! :D

You prefer using North America Prepress2 as your color settings in PS because you prefer Adobe RGB? Is that correct Sir?

I prefer to use Adobe RGB as my color workspace (it doesn't follow that I will use Adobe RGB as the color space for all of my images). But my color workspace preference might soon change.

I prefer to use North America PrePress2 because ALL of the check boxes for the Color Management Policies have been enabled.

Cheers!

Jo Avila

Jo Avila

08-04-2010, 11:25 PM

@Jo reading through this thread reminded me of the color management questions I was asking in your studio last Monday. :D

I "proof" my internet-uploaded pics by changing the color profile being used on my Mac back to "Color LCD". hahaha

You don't have to do that.

Check out in PS View>Proof Setup>Macintosh RGB/Windows RGB/Monitor RGB.

Cheers!

Jo Avila

Patrick.Te Seng

08-04-2010, 11:27 PM

haha You're right. Soft proof using a display profile. :D

LeyCastillo

08-08-2010, 11:43 PM

Jo Avila

08-09-2010, 06:28 AM

hello Sir Jo, I just recently calibrated my lcd monitor but after loading up old pictures that has been processed using another laptop (also calibrated) i noticed that photoshop and lightroom are displaying the photos in a more saturated version. But when I tried opening the same image in picasa viewer, google chrome, internet explorer, microsoft picture viewer and mozilla firefox they showed (almost) the same color.

I even tried removing colorvision from my startup list so it wont load when i restarted my pc but still PS and LR shows saturated photos, this time a little less warmer.

What should i Do? Please help.

Thanks in advance.

~ley

I will have to guess that all of your images are in sRGB but PS and LR are assigning your color workspace (which might be in Adobe RGB) as the color space of the image.

That's one of the things I can think of right now.

What are your color settings in PS?

Cheers!

Jo Avila

P.S.

This question has already been asked before. Please check out the previous replies either in this thread or the color management section of DPP forum.

HTH.

LeyCastillo

08-09-2010, 01:35 PM

Sir jo, it's set to sRGB. Thank you!

Jo Avila

08-09-2010, 06:47 PM

Sir jo, it's set to sRGB. Thank you!

sRGB is the color space of your images or your color workspace?

What about the other settings in your color settings?

What is the color space of your images?

Cheers!

Jo Avila

LeyCastillo

08-09-2010, 07:44 PM

What about the other settings in your color settings?

What is the color space of your images?

Cheers!

Jo Avila

Sorry for the confusion. :)

They are both on sRGB sir and as far as i remember, i did not change anything on the color settings menu but the color space only. I tried something earlier, on the advanced option i checked the option to reduce the saturation by 20% and it displayed the colors correctly. I believe that option should just be left unchecked so im convinced that it was not the answer to my dilema. I will try creating prints as soon as i get my printer tomorrow.

Again, thanks for answering my queries sir Jo!

vladdguevarra

10-12-2010, 03:45 PM

Jo Avila

10-13-2010, 01:12 AM

Hi! I recently acquired a laptop with a switchable graphics display.
http://www.amd.com/us/products/technologies/switchable-graphics/Pages/switchable-graphics.aspx

So here's my questions:

1. Will I have a problem installing Spyder 2 or 3 Express?
2. If I use the Spyder 2 or 3 Express, will it load the profile for onboard video card and ATI video card?

I don't foresee a problem installing the Spyder software.

However, based on specs, I would prefer that you calibrate and profile the display and you post process with the computer attached to an AC outlet.

This will make the laptop always use the default video card when AC is used.

Also, the display tends to be more stable, IMO, if it powered by an AC outlet.

HTH.

Cheers!

Jo Avila

P.S.

Anyone who has a different opinion from mine may object and correct me. This is the first time I've ever encountered this situation :D

vladdguevarra

10-13-2010, 07:55 AM

I don't foresee a problem installing the Spyder software.

However, based on specs, I would prefer that you calibrate and profile the display and you post process with the computer attached to an AC outlet.

This will make the laptop always use the default video card when AC is used.

Also, the display tends to be more stable, IMO, if it powered by an AC outlet.

HTH.

Cheers!

Jo Avila

P.S.

Anyone who has a different opinion from mine may object and correct me. This is the first time I've ever encountered this situation :D

Thank you sir! :)

SunnyMerindo

12-23-2010, 10:27 AM

Jo Avila

12-23-2010, 02:01 PM

Hi,

I recently calibrated and profiled my display using spyder3express. Im also using sRGB as working space in my color setting of my PS. However, when I tried to view my post processed image it seems they are a little bit dull using the default image viewer of PC (Windows image and fax viewer) but the colors are the good in PS, LR and bridge. Any idea?

Thanks!

Color savvy programs like PS, LR and Bridge recognize color profiles.

Non-color savvy programs like Windows Image and Fax Viewer do not recognize color profiles.

Cheers!

Jo Avila

SunnyMerindo

12-23-2010, 11:05 PM

Color savvy programs like PS, LR and Bridge recognize color profiles.

Non-color savvy programs like Windows Image and Fax Viewer do not recognize color profiles.

Cheers!

Thanks a Lot Sir Jo.. =)

Jo Avila

12-24-2010, 12:04 AM

Thanks a Lot Sir Jo.. =)

No problem. It's usually a problem if you're viewing images whose color space isn't sRGB (i.e. Adobe RGB, etc.) in both PS, etc. and in Windows Image and Fax viewer.

The difference shouldn't be as evident if all your images are in the color space of sRGB.

BTW, I'm referring to the color space of your images and not your color workspace in PS.

For example, your color workspace in PS could be sRGB but your images could be in the color space of Adobe RGB.

HTH.

Cheers!

Jo Avila

ElizaldE tolEntino

12-24-2010, 06:08 PM

Sir Jo, MERRY CHRISTMAS!

Please let me know if I'm doing this wrong: images color space (Adobe RGB), color workspace in PS (Adobe RGB 1998). When saving the images for Web, I convert to profile sRGB (though I seldom post in the web). Soon, I'll buy one of your recommended canon printer (iP4870). Thanks.

Jo Avila

12-24-2010, 06:49 PM

ElizaldE tolEntino

12-25-2010, 07:05 AM

Jo Avila

12-25-2010, 08:26 AM

I'm not sure sir Jo. I was using sRGB as my image color space and PS workspace before. But my friend (not a pro) told me that I should switch to Adobe RGB because it has a wide color gamut (so I did). Should I see differences (which I don't) when viewing my old and new pics? Thanks

Did he specify that you should start using Adobe RGB as your color workspace OR as the color space for your images? Your color workspace and the color space of your images aren't the same thing.

Yes, you might not see any difference in your images when you view them on your computer screen :D

Cheers!

Jo Avila

ElizaldE tolEntino

12-25-2010, 04:14 PM

Yes sir Jo, my friend told to me to use Adobe RGB as my image color space and Adobe RGB 1998 as my color workspace. Is this right sir Jo? Thanks

Jo Avila

12-25-2010, 09:28 PM

Yes sir Jo, my friend told to me to use Adobe RGB as my image color space and Adobe RGB 1998 as my color workspace. Is this right sir Jo? Thanks

Adobe RGB has a larger color gamut than sRGB.

No problem for as long as you know when to use Adobe RGB and sRGB as the color space of your images depending upon their usage :D

Cheers!

Jo Avila

ElizaldE tolEntino

12-25-2010, 09:33 PM

Thanks sir Jo.

Jo Avila

12-26-2010, 04:26 PM

Thanks sir Jo.

You can set your camera to capture images in the color space of Adobe RGB.

That's what I do. But I convert my images to sRGB if:

a) The images will be used for any web purpose (i.e. web gallery, facebook, email attachments, etc.).

b) The images will be viewed using non-color savvy programs (i.e. Windows Image and Fax Viewer, most web browsers, Microsoft word, Powerpoint presentations, etc.).

c) The image will be printed at a one photo lab in the mall (i.e. Kodak, Fuji labs).

d) I am not sure if how the image might be used or if I think the persons who will be receiving my images do not know anything about color management.

e) I want to simplify my life.

I would use Adobe RGB if I want to maintain the flexibility of having my images in a relatively larger color space :D

HTH.

Cheers!

Jo Avila

ElizaldE tolEntino

12-26-2010, 08:06 PM

Yes sir Jo, very helpful and well explained. Thank you.

Christian L. Sangoyo

12-28-2010, 08:52 PM

Jo Avila

12-29-2010, 08:06 AM

Just bought a Spyder 3 Express sir Jo and I have a question regarding creating profiles.

Do I have to create different profiles for different lighting conditions? Like for example working with all the lights out at night, with lights, morning light, etc etc? Or is this even possible as I am unable to find where I can switch profiles.

Thanks! :)

Ideally, you would have to create a new display profile each time there is a change in the lighting condition of your work area.

That's why it's sometimes preferred to have your computer in a work area where the lighting conditions are stable.

Nope, you don't have the option to choose different display profiles with the Spyder3 Express since the software doesn't give you the option to assign a custom label to the display profile :D

HTH.

Cheers!

Jo Avila

Christian L. Sangoyo

12-29-2010, 11:43 AM

Ideally, you would have to create a new display profile each time there is a change in the lighting condition of your work area.

That's why it's sometimes preferred to have your computer in a work area where the lighting conditions are stable.

Nope, you don't have the option to choose different display profiles with the Spyder3 Express since the software doesn't give you the option to assign a custom label to the display profile :D

HTH.

Cheers!

Jo Avila

Thanks sir Jo, so it's calibrate every time then? :Scared:

Jo Avila

12-29-2010, 12:25 PM

Thanks sir Jo, so it's calibrate every time then? :Scared:

That would be the ideal.

However, I use the Spyder3 Elite. I can check if my monitor is still within tolerance even if there is a change in the ambient lighting conditions of my work area.

I don't have to redo calibration and profiling if everything is still within an acceptable range.

I'll have to redo it if the software suggests that I redo it.

Your Spyder3 Express software doesn't have this feature.

But nothing is stopping you from trying to see if you can get away with not having to redo calibration and profiling.

The proof is always in the print. It the difference between the screen and the print is acceptable, then you can skip having to redo calibration and profiling, IMO, if you haven't changed any of your computer display settings (i.e. brightness, contrast, screen resolution, bit depth, gamma, whitepoint, etc.).

HOWEVER, you do have to wait about 10-15 minutes AFTER you start up your computer before you do any work in PS. You have to let the computer display warm up to make it stable. IMO, you can't compromise on this wait time after start up.

(This wait time doesn't apply if the screensaver was running. The wait time will apply if the display went to sleep.)

If you have to wait 10-15 minutes, what's a few more minutes spent having in using the Spyder3 to redo calibration and profiling? :D

HTH.

Cheers!

Jo Avila

Christian L. Sangoyo

12-29-2010, 05:04 PM

That would be the ideal.

If you have to wait 10-15 minutes, what's a few more minutes spent having in using the Spyder3 to redo calibration and profiling? :D

HTH.

Cheers!

Jo Avila

Now that would be a pain haha.

I guess' I'll just have to live with Express as I can't afford the higher models.

Now if only there's a way to know how much I need to dim my monitor. I've just found out that Spyder3express can't do this either. :(

Christian L. Sangoyo

12-29-2010, 06:42 PM

Jo Avila

01-07-2011, 07:54 AM

Alright, here's what I did sir Jo. I found that monitors should be at around 120cd/m2 here (http://www.dslrusers.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=38808&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&sid=4ba66ceac7828c5905d41796720ed394#p409546).

And I think I found a free software to measure my monitor's cd/m2 using Spyder3express with a third party application HCFR Colorimeter (http://www.homecinema-fr.com/colorimetre//index_en.php). Now, what I don't know is what to measure on my monitor, do I measure whites or grays to get the desired 120cd/m2?

I know that ambient lighting should also be considered when doing this, but I don't really have the means to do that. So I guess this should be the most calibrated my monitor can be.

Would that be correct sir Jo?

The luminance of your screen would vary depending on the lighting condition.

Don't think of 120cd/m2 as a fixed value.

For example, I like working in low ambient lighting conditions. My monitor is roughly set to 25cd/m2 :D

My suggestion is to set your monitor's luminance level to somewhere in the middle.

Use the Spyder3 to calibrate and profile it.

Do a test print and compare it against your monitor (ideally using PS with softproofing turned on.)

IF the print is slightly too dark, then your monitor is slightly too bright.

IF the print is slightly too bright, then your monitor is slightly too dark.

Adjust the monitor accordingly and redo calibration and profiling with the Spyder3 Express.

I don't know why you are complaining about the limited features of the Spyder3 Express. It's what I use at home. I prepared a batch of images for printing and exhibit last year and they were all edited on my home desktop computer :D

Cheers!

Jo Avila

Christian L. Sangoyo

01-07-2011, 07:30 PM

^ Alrighty sir Jo! Thanks for the advices and sorry for stretching your patience a bit hehe :Grin:

Jo Avila

01-08-2011, 01:28 AM

^ Alrighty sir Jo! Thanks for the advices and sorry for stretching your patience a bit hehe :Grin:

No problem. But you're headed in the right direction.

You're asking almost the same questions I used to ask when I first started studying about basic color management :D

Cheers!

Jo Avila

Matt_Javier

07-18-2011, 10:52 AM

Jo Avila

07-19-2011, 07:28 AM

good am sir jo!

i don't know if this is the right thread for my question, but here it goes...

is it worth a penny to buy a x-rite color checker passport? I've been eying for this one since i saw it over the net.

IMO, You want the Spydercheckr :D

http://spyder.datacolor.com/product-cb-spydercheckr.php

Products like these from Datacolor or X-Rite are useful if:

a) You shoot in RAW very often.

b) You shoot in a controlled lighting environment.

c) Your display monitor is calibrated and profiled accurately on a regular basis.

d) You print your photos :D

HTH.

Cheers!

Jo Avila

OrlanPascual

07-22-2011, 05:07 PM

Jo Avila

07-22-2011, 09:58 PM

Hi Sir Jo,

So glad to have found this group and i just joined. I am a newbee and photography is one of my hobbies.

I have an HP LCD monitor wich can go upto full HD display and i just recently bought the Cintiq 21UX of Wacom with a big discount on Spyder3Express. I am planning to use the Cintiq 21UX as my main display and the HP monitor as my extended monitor.

I am new to monitor calibration. Do you have any guidelines as to how to do it in dual monitor using the Spyder3Express? Also i am not sure if Spyder3Express could calibrate Wacom tablets correctly.

Thanks for your patience in advance and more power.

Regards,
OrlanPascual

I would rather use the Cintiq 21 for all of my work. It is one of the few display monitors I've used that gave me an almost perfect screen to print match after it has been properly calibrated and profiled.

The Spyder3 Express doesn't support a dual monitor set up. You'll need a Spyder3 Elite for that.

You'll have to choose which between the 2 monitors you will use for reference for softproofing, color correction, adjustment of brightness and contrast and use the Spyder3 Express on that display.

Cheers!

Jo Avila

xavierkatigbak

09-01-2011, 12:12 AM

Jo Avila

09-01-2011, 07:13 PM

i've frequently had the comment/criticism that my photos are underexposed at times. is there a place where i can have my mac's screen calibrated for a fee? or do i really have to purchase a spyder3? please help.

Do people tell you that your shots are underexposed when they view your images on the web on their displays or when your shots have to be printed?

It isn't an accurate gauge if they use their computer monitors to view your images. How do you know for sure that their images have been calibrated and profiled?

I would recommend that you purchase a Spyder3 to calibrate and profile your display. It will pay for itself in the long run.

You will have to redo calibration and profiling of your Mac display on a regular basis. You'll redo it more often if you're using a laptop. We generally have to redo the whole process each time we move our laptop to a different location because of the change in the ambient light of our work area.

I own more than one Mac. But the Spyder allows me to calibrate and profile all of my Mac based displays.

IMO, it pays for itself in the long run because:

a) You'll have to do it more than once.

b) You could go to an establishment that would calibrate and profile your display for a fee. But, IMO, the display profile wouldn't be accurate the moment you brought your workstation to a different location.

c) You save more time, effort and money when you print your images.

That's actually one of the main reasons why a lot of photographers need to use a software/hardware combo like the Spyder3. They will print their images. IMHO, I can't maximize the use of my Spyder3 if I will just post images on the web.

But the whole logic of spending money on digital camera and a lens is because you want to print images.

Cheers!

Jo Avila

xavierkatigbak

09-01-2011, 09:41 PM

Do people tell you that your shots are underexposed when they view your images on the web on their displays or when your shots have to be printed?

It isn't an accurate gauge if they use their computer monitors to view your images. How do you know for sure that their images have been calibrated and profiled?

I would recommend that you purchase a Spyder3 to calibrate and profile your display. It will pay for itself in the long run.

You will have to redo calibration and profiling of your Mac display on a regular basis. You'll redo it more often if you're using a laptop. We generally have to redo the whole process each time we move our laptop to a different location because of the change in the ambient light of our work area.

I own more than one Mac. But the Spyder allows me to calibrate and profile all of my Mac based displays.

IMO, it pays for itself in the long run because:

a) You'll have to do it more than once.

b) You could go to an establishment that would calibrate and profile your display for a fee. But, IMO, the display profile wouldn't be accurate the moment you brought your workstation to a different location.

c) You save more time, effort and money when you print your images.

That's actually one of the main reasons why a lot of photographers need to use a software/hardware combo like the Spyder3. They will print their images. IMHO, I can't maximize the use of my Spyder3 if I will just post images on the web.

But the whole logic of spending money on digital camera and a lens is because you want to print images.

Cheers!

Jo Avila

Thanks for the explanation Sir Jo. I had several post here in DPP and was told that my photos were underexpose by several photographer friends. Yep, I have to agree too that it might be worthwhile having my personal Spyder.

Here is the thread where i was told of the underexposed images.

http://digitalphotographer.com.ph/forum/showthread.php?t=42391

Thanks again.

Jo Avila

09-02-2011, 01:07 AM

Thanks for the explanation Sir Jo. I had several post here in DPP and was told that my photos were underexpose by several photographer friends. Yep, I have to agree too that it might be worthwhile having my personal Spyder.

Here is the thread where i was told of the underexposed images.

http://digitalphotographer.com.ph/forum/showthread.php?t=42391

Thanks again.

I wouldn't buy a Spyder if you will just post images on the web. Not everyone uses a computer display that has been accurately calibrated and profiled on a regular basis.

(Please take note of one of the comments in the thread.)

You would want to purchase a Spyder if you wish to print your images (IMHO).

But, a Spyder3 is like a camera. Buying a camera won't automatically mean that you have knowledge about basic photography.

It's the same thing with a Spyder. You must have a knowledge about basic color management if you want to get your money's worth out of it :D

Cheers!

Jo Avila

Caloy Iblasin

09-02-2011, 11:33 AM

Jo Avila

09-02-2011, 10:07 PM

Sir Jo,

I stopped readin the thread on page 8 to ask a question :Grin:

i want to know if i have a spyder calibration tool i can have a calibrated laptop that i can edit without worrying on how it will look in print even if i printed my photo anywhere? right?

No. The display is accurate. But I would assume that you would also have some rudimentary knowledge of color management.

Did you turn on softproofing in Photoshop?

Do you know which rendering intent to use among the four (i.e. Percpetual, Saturation, Relative Colorimetric, Absolute Colorimetric).

Do you have to gamut map to the destination color space?

Even after all of that - you would still worry a bit because you won't get a 100% match between the screen and the print.

BUT, you would worry a lot less if you used a Spyder and practiced color management :D

HTH.

Cheers!

Jo Avila

Caloy Iblasin

09-02-2011, 11:34 PM

No. The display is accurate. But I would assume that you would also have some rudimentary knowledge of color management.

Did you turn on softproofing in Photoshop?

Do you know which rendering intent to use among the four (i.e. Percpetual, Saturation, Relative Colorimetric, Absolute Colorimetric).

Do you have to gamut map to the destination color space?

Even after all of that - you would still worry a bit because you won't get a 100% match between the screen and the print.

BUT, you would worry a lot less if you used a Spyder and practiced color management :D

HTH.

Cheers!

Jo Avila

That is all greek to me sir JO:Thinking: lol

since i am new to photography and my photoshop skill is zero i may just attend your photoshop workshop and color management workshop if you have can you send me a pm if there will be one instead? hahaha:D

Jo Avila

09-03-2011, 09:33 AM

That is all greek to me sir JO:Thinking: lol

since i am new to photography and my photoshop skill is zero i may just attend your photoshop workshop and color management workshop if you have can you send me a pm if there will be one instead? hahaha:D

You may view more info about my photography seminars at www.joavila.com

Cheers!

Jo Avila

P.S.

This is actually a common occurrence. Most people will assume that purchasing a Spyder will automatically solve all of their color management concerns.

Does buying a camera endow you with all of the skill and knowledge of photography? :D

The Spyder3 is a tool. You still have to learn how to use the tool :D

angelochiu

12-22-2011, 08:01 PM

Good evening. I'm not sure if if doing the right thing.. After my calibration using s Spyder 3 Pro, my display looks reddish to me. What I mean by reddish.. the greys look reddish.. Black seems to be black and white are white (though a bit warm for my eyes) except for the greys..

I have reset and reset my display before doing the calibration and did the prerequisites of having warmed the display, no extreme lighting shining on the display.. I seem to like the way the display was before...

After Calibration:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-sAd1M__9Ddw/TvMYleDm2FI/AAAAAAAAP3I/_A-Em-oT2gY/s800/Photo0174.jpg

Before Calibration:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-zzCOaB53N10/TvMYlVq7yuI/AAAAAAAAP3M/4KJBCH1Rfmw/s800/Photo0175.jpg

Ideas? Comments? Suggestions?

My LCD is plugged into a laptop with an Intel HD Graphic Family.. By the way, the same results happened when I tried to calibrate my other LCD display plugged in a desktop PC with an NVIDIA card..

In need of assistance.. TIA!

Jo Avila

12-22-2011, 09:43 PM