Q1: I've set my Lightroom default colorspace to ProPhoto 16bit... Does this matter if my original RAW files were in sRGB or aRGB?

Q2: What color settings should I use in CS2? I see monitor and printer profiles underneath the Color Settings window... Which should I use and when am I supposed to use the monitor and printer profiles?

Q3: Assuming I'm already working in ProPhoto or any other colorspace wider than sRGB, then I export for web, does PS automatically convert this to sRGB? I don't know what happened but I tried SAVE AS for a couple of my images and they looked "wrong" (like when you use aRGB then didn't embed the sRGB profile, colors are desaturated) in Windows but looks fine in Flickr...

I'm really confused...

david,
color management basic: RAW files do not have a color space default. The RAW conversion will assign the color space of your choice to your RAW image during conversion.
Hmmm....i'd love to answer this question but i think somebody else is more qualified to. i'd rather pretend i don't know rather than embarrass my ass :)
nope. you have to convert it to sRGB using EDIT>Convert to Profile. It will look weird in windows because the default windows viewer does not recognize profiles and is color space blind. If you are displaying it online, better convert it yourself to sRGB.images in prophoto color space will look way off in windows.

hth.

Q1: I've set my Lightroom default colorspace to ProPhoto 16bit... Does this matter if my original RAW files were in sRGB or aRGB?

Q2: What color settings should I use in CS2? I see monitor and printer profiles underneath the Color Settings window... Which should I use and when am I supposed to use the monitor and printer profiles?

Q3: Assuming I'm already working in ProPhoto or any other colorspace wider than sRGB, then I export for web, does PS automatically convert this to sRGB? I don't know what happened but I tried SAVE AS for a couple of my images and they looked "wrong" (like when you use aRGB then didn't embed the sRGB profile, colors are desaturated) in Windows but looks fine in Flickr...

I'm really confused...


i'm curious as to why do you wantto work with prophoto.

Jay: Thanks pare...

So with my 3rd question... I have to convert the image back to 8-bit, then go to convert to profile before save-as, correct?

How about in Lightroom when I export? I don't think it asks for such conversion...

Nino: Well, just reading through some books and forums and it seems like a good idea... I guess my main questions are not color-space specific, but more of a compatibility during printing, export to web and monitor matching, I guess.

i understand. on question number 3, yes it converts automatically to sRGB hence you would see a big drop on colors.

i normally have this workflow from lightroom down to web.

start with adobe RGB in camera. DL in lightroom, export as Adobe RGB (assuming that the tweaks are done), then edit still in Adobe RGB workspace in Photoshop.

by then, i decide where to output, to miguel's digiprint or to nick's printer. depending on the output, i convert accordingly.

i see....lightroom ka pala david. nino's the man then to answer your questions.

but for those working from ACR and the others...the conversion should be done in photoshop, just before the save as step :)

that's how i do it.

i just noticed....working in a huge color space such prophoto for images meant for sRGB display (i.e. for the web) is kinda hard to manage since the move will most likely clip your image. check the histogram before and after the conversion to sRGB to see what i mean.

lightroom works on a color space that is bigger than prophoto RGB. from there, tweak the image's color, contrast, exposure to your liking. export to either a tiff, raw file, dng, psd, or jpeg. i normally export to PSD, adobe RGB, 300DPI, natural size.

jay's right. from a big color space to a smaller one, you'd notice some colors will be clipped. i personally do not work with pro photo RGB since when viewing the file in non-color managed applications, you get some really fuc---d up colors.

So what do you guys suggest? aRGB on both nalang in the preferences setting?

thanks :)

So what do you guys suggest? aRGB on both nalang in the preferences setting?

thanks :)

for making the workflow easy, yes.

@david...

for most output choices, it would seem that aRGB is the most practical choice :)

again, it's a question of what are you outputting to dave?

Nino: Both my iP4500 and flickr only...

OT: Still waiting for your PM about Metrobank dep bro hehe.

Nino: Both my iP4500 and flickr only...

OT: Still waiting for your PM about Metrobank dep bro hehe.

hmm. when printing, work on Adobe RGB. if outputting to flickr, convert to sRGB.

@ Nino

David's questions about Pro Photo reminds me about a conversation I had with Nick and Amiel at DPP HQ.

We ended up using the analogy of feet and inches while discussing about color spaces :D

Cheers!

Jo Avila

So what workflow am I supposed to do to print? Am I supposed to change the Color Settings to the printer profiles?

In addition, is my assumption correct that you will end up "working" with 2 images (same file), one for web/screen use and another for print as the print image will be slightly different (more sharpening, slightly different histogram - to match the printer's black and white point limits)?

So what workflow am I supposed to do to print? Am I supposed to change the Color Settings to the printer profiles?

In addition, is my assumption correct that you will end up "working" with 2 images (same file), one for web/screen use and another for print as the print image will be slightly different (more sharpening, slightly different histogram - to match the printer's black and white point limits)?

Color Settings, the only thing important there is to put it to Adobe RGB your RGB profile. Ends there.

When printing, let Photoshop handle your colors. Make sure that your paper profiles are also loaded.

When printing, let Photoshop handle your colors. Make sure that your paper profiles are also loaded.

Complete noob... please expound hehe... thanks.

In addition, is my assumption correct that you will end up "working" with 2 images (same file), one for web/screen use and another for print as the print image will be slightly different (more sharpening, slightly different histogram - to match the printer's black and white point limits)?


sRGB approximates the colorspace of D65, Gamma 2.2, CRT monitors.

For printers mapping paper white point and black point is part of ICC color management feature. White Point tag is standard required tag on all printer profiles while Black Point tag is optional tag. However in Photoshop Black Point Compensation feature (unique only to Photoshop) can estimate the printer black point without need for Black Point tag. If you want to use these features choose the Relative Coloritmetric transform w/ BPC on or Perceptual Colorimetric transform.

Jon: Sorry, I don't understand the jargon... :(

@ Jay

Didn't we have a conversation about Prophoto during the first Print Like A Pro Seminar? :D

Cheers!

Jo Avila

david,
color management basic: RAW files do not have a color space default. The RAW conversion will assign the color space of your choice to your RAW image during conversion.
Hmmm....i'd love to answer this question but i think somebody else is more qualified to. i'd rather pretend i don't know rather than embarrass my ass :)
nope. you have to convert it to sRGB using EDIT>Convert to Profile. It will look weird in windows because the default windows viewer does not recognize profiles and is color space blind. If you are displaying it online, better convert it yourself to sRGB.images in prophoto color space will look way off in windows.

hth.

Complete noob... please expound hehe... thanks.

The simple approach :D

In Photoshop, go to View>Proof Setup>Custom and select the ICC profile for the printer and paper that you will be using.

Canon iP4500 SG* is for printing with Canon Everyday Glossy Photo Paper (GP-501/401) on your printer.

Canon iP4500 SP1 is for printing with Canon Plus Glossy Photo Paper (PP-101) on your printer.

Canon iP4500 PR* is for printing with Canon Photo Paper Pro on your printer.

Canon iP4500 MP* is for printing with Canon Matte Photo Paper on your printer.

Select a rendering intent (i.e. Perceptual, Relative Colorimetric, Saturation, Absolute Colorimetric). I normally use either Perceptual or Relative Colorimetric on my Canon printers.

You might want to check black point compensation.

The display will now show you how the image is supposed to look once printed.

Edit the image based on the softproof.

Afterwards, go to Print With Preview.

Select the same color profile and rendering intent that you used for softproofing.

Choose Let Photoshop Determine the Colors.

Hit Print. Select the paper that you will be printing on. Go to Color Options. Select none for Color Correction.

Hit Print again.

Enjoy :D

Cheers!

Jo Avila

Jon: Sorry, I don't understand the jargon... :(

In addition, is my assumption correct that you will end up "working" with 2 images (same file), one for web/screen use and another for print as the print image will be slightly different (more sharpening, slightly different histogram - to match the printer's black and white point limits)?

If you are using color management you will definitely end with more than 2 images depending on how many display devices you are going to display or print. The understanding is no device can display or print colors exactly so the need for color management to predict, communicate or match colors to each other and so come these ICC profiles and color management aware applications such as Adobe, Corel and etc. ICC profiles are files in your Windows/System32/Spool/Drivers/Color folder which contains these data needed for the above and organized in the form of Tags.

Color Management wouldn't do image processing functions such as sharpening. Histogram adjustments you mentioned above is equivalent to using Relative Colorimetric Intent w/ BPC or Perceptual Colorimetric Intent.

If you need to understand what color management can do or cannot do for the moment please research further. http://www.color.org/iccprofile.xalter ICC specs are continually evolving and getting more and more sophisticated! :)

OMG thanks so much Jo and Jon.... Total clarity now with my queries, will study the subject further and experiment... Thanks a million.

You are welcome! Feel free to bring up more questions and will try to answer them as much as I know however only at rudimentary level. :)

Hi Jon/Nick/Nino/Jo again...

Just experimenting on soft-proofing again.

Since soft-proofing on a selected paper type usually displays a slightly muted result on screen when "Proof Color" is checked, I tried to do the following to get it closer to the monitor's image, I was wondering if this is an acceptable process.

1) Save the "finalized", copy of the image (the one that looked good on screen).
2) Save the same file as a copy, then softproof using the paper type to be used.
3) Open both images side by side.
4) Selecting the muted "proof" image, I went to image >> adjustments >> match color and used the original (the one that looked good on screen) as a source. Then using the sliders to get the "proof" version close to how the original looked like.

Is that another way of doing it? The printout did look good, though...

You should be more specific on the word "muted". Do you mean the black portion looks duller or the hightlights or some particular colors such as reds?

It could be also that you are using Perceptual Rendering Intent which the method of color mapping is to compressed the colors on output and therefore may give less overall saturation on softproof and on output. This is photographic color mapping method which the tradeoff is less color accuracy but better shades and gradients.

Your procedure doesn't look logical. It seems to blame that the Photoshop CMS system is flawed and has to be manually adjusted. Please try Relative Rendering instead.

kinda like having a 5% grey opaque layer on top of the image.

I'm starting to confuse this thread with my iP4500 thread hehe... I'll stop asking here for now...

i understand. on question number 3, yes it converts automatically to sRGB hence you would see a big drop on colors.

i normally have this workflow from lightroom down to web.

start with adobe RGB in camera. DL in lightroom, export as Adobe RGB (assuming that the tweaks are done), then edit still in Adobe RGB workspace in Photoshop.

by then, i decide where to output, to miguel's digiprint or to nick's printer. depending on the output, i convert accordingly.

hi nino. i calibrated my monitor with my spyder2express and then tweaked my photos on my screen in lightroom and now i'm waiting for miguel to mail me the his profiles like you recommended.

assuming i'm happy with what i see on my screen in lightroom, what do i do next to make sure the print from digiprint pro comes out close to it? :)

You could convert your images to the color profile of the paper that digiprint will be using to print your images.

Cheers!

Jo Avila

Just got Miguel's profiles for digiprint :) however I can't identify what file type they are (windows machine)! How do I install these?

I read that you should be able to right-click them and an option to install them would appear. Is this true?

Just got Miguel's profiles for digiprint :) however I can't identify what file type they are (windows machine)! How do I install these?

I read that you should be able to right-click them and an option to install them would appear. Is this true?

yes they are right-clickable. after installing them, restart (for best results). launch photoshop and convert the image to miguel's profile via the convert to profile command.

yes they are right-clickable. after installing them, restart (for best results). launch photoshop and convert the image to miguel's profile via the convert to profile command.

oh i guess the files miguel sent me are corrupt!

hmm so once i convert the photo to the profile does that mean what i will be seeing on my screen AFTER conversion is what i should expect from the printout? Or do you convert the image to the profile to make sure the photo comes out close to what you see on the screen PRIOR to conversion?

i hope that makes sense haha. i'm wondering how it works and if should tweak the photo's colors again after converting to miguel's profile :)

yes they are right-clickable. after installing them, restart (for best results). launch photoshop and convert the image to miguel's profile via the convert to profile command.


Hi, so im using lightroom as well and will be sending digiprint some photos next week for printing. How do i install thier custom settings in lightroom. I dont think i can do that there. Thanks

oh i guess the files miguel sent me are corrupt!

hmm so once i convert the photo to the profile does that mean what i will be seeing on my screen AFTER conversion is what i should expect from the printout? Or do you convert the image to the profile to make sure the photo comes out close to what you see on the screen PRIOR to conversion?

i hope that makes sense haha. i'm wondering how it works and if should tweak the photo's colors again after converting to miguel's profile :)

Hello Diege,

If you convert the file to the profile and click the proof setup on the view options on photoshop, you should be able to see a close approximation of how it will come out presuming you have a calibrated monitor etc.

I've got a question for the pros.

Presuming I've got a well exposed photo,

can shops like Digiprint and DPI take full advantage of the Adobe RGB colour gamut?
Will I see a marked difference if I keep files on ARGB and have them printed?

If I sent an Adobe RGB to the local Island photo with sRGB machines, will the colours come out way off? (dull, or just plain messed).

When playing with ACR I noticed I can't move the sliders very far without clipping colours real fast compared to Adobe RGB so I was wondering if it was worth the trouble to set and forget my SLR on that mode instead of sRGB.

I've got a question for the pros.

Presuming I've got a well exposed photo,

can shops like Digiprint and DPI take full advantage of the Adobe RGB colour gamut?
Will I see a marked difference if I keep files on ARGB and have them printed?

If I sent an Adobe RGB to the local Island photo with sRGB machines, will the colours come out way off? (dull, or just plain messed).

When playing with ACR I noticed I can't move the sliders very far without clipping colours real fast compared to Adobe RGB so I was wondering if it was worth the trouble to set and forget my SLR on that mode instead of sRGB.

Yes. It will come out crappy. Our test prints with Digiprint revealed that it is a limitation of the Fuji/Noritsu machines. Try doing this, edit in Adobe RGB, then convert to profile to Digiprint's profile.

Hmm. Sounds like I can't set and forget my camera on A RGB. I guess I'll just choose between raw and jpeg sRGB for the flexibility and ease.

Thanks

Hmm. Sounds like I can't set and forget my camera on A RGB. I guess I'll just choose between raw and jpeg sRGB for the flexibility and ease.

Thanks

What do you mean?

Hmm. Sounds like I can't set and forget my camera on A RGB. I guess I'll just choose between raw and jpeg sRGB for the flexibility and ease.

Thanks

No. Still set your camera to argb. argb is preferred by desktop printers and magazines.

My RAW+ Small JPEG cheat is that I set my color space on my camera to sRGB.

The client gets JPEGs in sRGB. Perfect for viewing in applications that do not recognize color profiles.

The RAW files that get sent to the graphic designer are converted with the color space set to Adobe RGB.

Plus its a real time saver since I don't have to convert all my RAW files to JPEGs just for previewing purposes :D

Cheers!

Jo Avila

That was my other option but I'm still saving for more space on a 3rd external drive. I find it too time consuming to go through multiple copies of pictures for the mean time, plus I don't have that many CF cards. I'll just try to be more conscious of the gamut I need for the intended final product.

Nino,

by magazines do you mean DPP and other high quality prints?

I see a lot of low spec point and shoots being blown up to sizes similar to DPP.

Are ARGB images more vivid than sRGB for full page DPP sized prints?

What do you mean?


Hello David,

There are some sets where I don't bother colour correcting the photos in photoshop. Just burn then send to the local digiprint for mass snapshot printing. Hence sRGB would be easier to use cause I won't have edit them for the lab. Sometimes though I find a few worth printing at 8x12, and those I tinker with using ACR. Thats where I notice the limitations in tinkering with sRGB vis-a-vis aRGB, thats why raw would be useful for me to go back and get the more flexible gamut.

Ah I see, thanks for clarifying :)...

Hi. How do i convert to digiprint's profile when Im using lightroom?



Yes. It will come out crappy. Our test prints with Digiprint revealed that it is a limitation of the Fuji/Noritsu machines. Try doing this, edit in Adobe RGB, then convert to profile to Digiprint's profile.

Do screen protectors affect calibration? If so, is there a workaround other than removing the protector?

Im sure they do, but if you calibrated WITH the screen protector on, it should've accounted for whatever lack in contrast the thin sheet may have caused.

Im sure they do, but if you calibrated WITH the screen protector on, it should've accounted for whatever lack in contrast the thin sheet may have caused.

or the boost in saturation that some screen protectors causes also.

Good to hear. Thanks David and Nino.