Just want to inform MNL guys, several K10D users in SG and HK have had their units fixed because of misalignment of sensor causing horizontal tilts even on level surface/support.

Might wanna check yours as well.

unless the misalignment angle is really big enough to affect the framed image, those who shoot and do a lot of post processing (including cropping and alignment) a lot will probably disregard this issue.

Thanks for the info, David - good to know that Pentax is able to correct this problem, but I'll have to wait until after the holidays before turning my K10D in since it takes about a couple of months turnaround as repairs have to be done in Japan (according to Sanly). That's the wait I had to put up with when my 1-month old 50-200 had a problem focusing at infinity. Quite ironic since the K10D and other models in the series are assembled in Cebu. Oh well, what can I say.....
Cheers!

Nat: Understood, just wanted to inform folks about it as quite a lot of less-experienced users will struggle to get the horizon straight and they might think it's their technique, tripod, etc...

Marlon: A couple of months? wow.... hassle nga esp this upcoming holidays... So yours is a little tilted as well?

i have two k10d's. both tilt. will send them in right before the warranty ends. thanks for the info.

joey

What are the possible ways to test my k10d if it has tilt?

Thanks and cheers!
Sunny

huh! a celebrated award(s)-winning camera with an inherent defect? how?

huh! a celebrated award(s)-winning camera with an inherent defect? how?

are awards based on quality/defects or features and innovations?

David- yes, mine is tilted as well - enough to cause problems when taking horizon shots. I've learned to compensate a bit but still have to put up with the hassle in PP. And that's right - 2 months repair turnaround! I'll send it in before warranty expires in April :-)

I read somewhere that it's not really the sensor but the viewfinder that's tilted - someone tried taking a picture on a level surface (both camera and subject were in perfect level using a bubble-level instrument) - the pictures came out perfect, but the view through the viewfinder was tilted according to the tester. Well, whatever - whether its the sensor or the viewfinder that's tilted, if the picture comes out tilted it's still a problem.

Cheers!

are awards based on quality/defects or features and innovations?

on all of them! i wouldn't award a new car a best car title if it's always veering to the left. makes the customer in me feeling so robbed and unhappy!

on all of them! i wouldn't award a new car a best car title if it's always veering to the left. makes the customer in me feeling so robbed and unhappy!

so no DSLR deserve the award because all of them have issues? all cars have issues...so no car deserve an award? i'm sorry to tell you but awards like what the K10D or any Car of the Year awards are not based on quality and defects...there is a separate award for that - the quality and reliability. Awards like DSLR or Car Of the Year Award are based on features and innovations that the product is offering in its class.

so no DSLR deserve the award because all of them have issues? all cars have issues...so no car deserve an award?

what time is it in the uk sir? either you are sleep deprived or you have a jalapeno pepper up your royal arse! you sound very angry..

on all of them! i wouldn't award a new car a best car title if it's always veering to the left. makes the customer in me feeling so robbed and unhappy!

OK CHANGE OF PLANS!! and i was gonna get one for my daughter. thanks guys!!

what time is it in the uk sir? either you are sleep deprived or you have a jalapeno pepper up your royal arse! you sound very angry..

it's 10:30pm here...and what's your problem? it seems it's you having the problem and not me...you sound so sensitive when we try to debate here....please grow up boy!

it's 10:24pm here...and what's your problem? it seems it's you having the problem and not me...you sound so sensitive when we try to debate here....please grow up!

WOW!! you really got up on the wrong side of the bed, did you? who were you debating with? is there a debate? sheeesh.. go out and breathe some fresh air and then come back. let's see if you're saner.

WOW!! you really got up on the wrong side of the bed, did you? who were you debating with? is there a debate? sheeesh.. go out and breathe some fresh air and then come back. let's see if you're saner.

i think you woke up early, go back to bed, get more sleep to gain more mental maturity and come back here when you are ready to discuss in a mature manner.

it's 10:30pm here...and what's your problem? it seems it's you having the problem and not me...you sound so sensitive when we try to debate here....please grow up boy!

oh no! a wild pentaxian on the loose!! call the photography police!! or better still orville redenbacher!!

i think you woke up early, go back to bed, get more sleep to gain more mental maturity and come back here when you are ready to discuss in a mature manner.

NAT'S NAT SO HAPPY AND SO NUTTY - BYE-BYE NAT!!

oh no! a wild pentaxian on the loose!! call the photography police!! or better still orville redenbacher!!

basil, i don't want to hijack what David had started, i was trying to correct the impression of manny that DSLR of the Year Award or Car of the Year Awards are based on quality...what's the problems with that? he became too sensitive and started a personal discussion based on emotions...don't tell me you are also trying to do what manny did?

David, I apologize if this thread had went sideways, my first comment may sound the same but it was not intended to disregard the issue that you pointed out.

basil, i don't want to hijack what David had started, i was trying to correct the impression of manny that awards are based on quality...what's the problems with that? he became too sensitive and started a personal discussion based on emotions...don't tell me you are also trying to do what manny did?

just trying to inject some humour on a potential conflagration bud! but to tell you the honest truth, i saw his point. i was gonna get a k10d for my daughter this week but i guess it's not happening. i can not in conscience , to use manny's analogy, buy a new car knowing it's already being recalled and will take two months to fix. i have used pentaxes for the last 30 years and always have stood by their high quality and innovation, words that can not be separated by the way. this time, it's a clear BOO-BOO! i own every M LEICA there is except the M8 partly because it is pricey but mainly because LEICA admitted that there is a defect on that 4,000 dollar camera and offered buyers corrective filters to counter it. i said no.

lastly, i have probably used and enjoyed every camera brand- from ALPA to ZORKI and everything in between. i judge them by how they perform and not by the name stamped on them. i would not be so anal about starting or participating in a debate. if i do, that makes me a button pusher not a photographer.

just trying to inject some humour on a potential conflagration bud! but to tell you the honest truth, i saw his point. i was gonna get a k10d for my daughter this week but i guess it's not happening. i can not in conscience , to use manny's analogy, buy a new car knowing it's already being recalled and will take two months to fix. i have used pentaxes for the last 30 years and always have stood by their high quality and innovation, words that can not be separated by the way. this time, it's a clear BOO-BOO! i own every M LEICA there is except the M8 partly because it is pricey but mainly because LEICA admitted that there is a defect on that 4,000 dollar camera and offered buyers corrective filters to counter it. i said no.

lastly, i have probably used and enjoyed every camera brand- from ALPA to ZORKI and everything in between. i judge them by how they perform and not by the name stamped on them. i would not be so anal about starting or participating in a debate. if i do, that makes me a button pusher not a photographer.

i think we cannot use the car quality issue (specially if it's a quality issue that involves safety that may kill the passenger) to compare it to what the K10D issue is. but i agree with you that it's an issue on K10D, whether it's an issue to all K10D or not i don't know. the issue on tilting sensor or viewfinder of K10D, as i mentioned in my first post, may not be a big issue to people who do cropping in post processing unless the angle of tilting is big enough. if we compare it to the issue of the other brands like back front/back focusing, K10D's issue is a piece of cake. At least K10D issue is predictable and consistent in all shots. And if the owner is aware of it, he can easily compensate it by approximation when framing. But the issues like banding, mis focusing, back/front focusing one has to really return the camera or the lens to the shop and have it replaced. K10D's issue can be easily corrected in post processing in less than 10 seconds and won't cost a photographer missing a shot in a very important moment, back/focusing/banding is something that would cost a photographer a lot because he may miss the shot and it cannot be corrected in post processing.

i think we cannot use the car quality issue (specially if it's a quality issue that involves safety that may kill the passenger) to compare it to what the K10D issue is. but i agree with you that it's an issue on K10D, whether it's an issue to all K10D or not i don't know. the issue on tilting sensor or viewfinder of K10D, as i mentioned in my first post, may not be a big issue to people who do cropping and post processing unless the angle of tilting is big enough. if you compare it to the issue of the other brands like back front/back focusing, K10D's issue is a piece of cake. At least K10D issue is predictable and consistent in all shots. And if the owner is aware of, he can easily compensate it by approximation when framing but the issues like banding, mis focusing, back/front focusing one has to really return the camera or the lens to make it work properly.

sorry bud- i'm paying big money, i expect zero-defect. why would a customer compensate for a manufacturer's mistake. don't get me wrong-i love pentax. my daughter, who is now on her way to becoming a film-maker in toronto learnt the ropes on the old trusty 1stD. she still has it and continues to wow her professors with brilliant output from it. i loved it when i owned it. she's so excited about the k10d but like i said, it's not gonna happen till that issue is resolved.

sorry bud- i'm paying big money, i expect zero-defect. why would a customer compensate for a manufacturer's mistake. don't get me wrong-i love pentax. my daughter, who is now on her way to becoming a film-maker in toronto learnt the ropes on the old trusty 1stD. she still has it and continues to wow her professors with brilliant output from it. i loved it when i owned it. she's so excited about the k10d but like i said, it's not gonna happen till that issue is resolved.

i agree with you on that specially if it's a had-earned money and would probably do the same. but to the people who already bought it and consider it a big issue, then maybe that's where i disagree.

i agree with you on that specially if it's a had-earned money and would probably do the same. but to the people who already bought it and consider it a big issue, then maybe that's where i disagree.

we're one on that nat. they called me MR. NIKON in college and CANON and LEICA were my bread and butter when i was raising a familly and slaving for my mortgage. i was drooling for a K10D and now this---what a bummer!!

Hmmm I don't even know if mine has a tilt. I just realized my K10d has never seen the earth's horizon. Maybe too many curves and not enough lines? :Shock: I really need to get out more. :)

I have an inborn tilted horizon. Maybe this can correct it. :) lol :)
But seriously, I hope I'm not one of the K10D users with this problem. Just got this baby from Sanly after waiting for the new stocks to arrive...

anyone here know if what batch of k10d are affected?

Mine doesn't seem to have this problem (I think). I tested it on a tripod this morning with SR off and 2 sec. timer. I aligned the lower edges of my bedroom window to the lower edge of the viewfinder. The viewfinder coverage isn't 100% so the image as seen on the rear LCD has some extra space from the edge. But it looks aligned to me.

When I take a handheld shot there is some variation in alignment, sometimes I get it right, sometimes not. But I know my hands aren't steady because I can see the image swaying in the viewfinder as I try to align it. At the exact moment I take the shot, the viewfinder blacks out momentarily due to the mirror slap so its hard to know if the image I took was aligned or not, until the image is played back on the LCD.

With a tripod it is easier to verify, so I suggest bring a tripod with you when buying. Switch off SR so the sensor doesn't shift, then use the timer to make sure the body doesn't move as you depress the shutter button.

It happens on Nikon pro cameras too. Here's Thom Hogan himself saying: "I've yet to see a Nikon viewfinder perfectly aligned".

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1039&message=19617396

I thought my cam had tilt too, whenever I align a shot handheld it always skews to the right, after testing it on a tripod(without a bubble level) and composing through the viewfinder, I realized the tilt comes from my shuttering:D

I can't believe it. My first experience of someone else trolling in the DGP Pentax forums! LoL

Regardless of the tilt, the Pentax K10D still got the awards in the US, in Australia, in Europe, and in Japan. Regardless of the tilt, the camera can still perform beautifully.

Last time I checked, I had to have the camera in hand most of the time, to, you know, take photos, to frame it and such, make sure it was aligned with what I felt was right at the time of taking the shot. If I was going to be using the tripod a lot, a few degrees would be noticeable for me to adjust accordingly.

Oh, and not all K10D cameras have that defect (Gasp!). If I was going to buy one, I'd try it out, and if I found it was defective, get a replacement right away. Not jump brands and get something else that might be more expensive and not have the features the K10D has.

I find it hard to believe for someone to be sticking to the Pentax brand for 50 years then suddenly jumping wagons because of a tilting issue. That's just ridiculous.

Then again, that same person may have a considerably larger bank account, fair enough, but I'd be getting something more expensive, like the Canon 40D, or the Nikon D300 at the least.

My apologies for ranting. I really appreciate how people post their messages here, so it just ticks me off to see someone disrupt the tone of the forums.

Err...how about something constructive? Is there a simple way to check for this defect while you're still in the store? All I can think of is putting the K10D on a flat surface, pointing and focusing on a wall with horizantal and vertical features and using the 2 sec timer to take the shot.

I've had mine for several months now and haven't really done any tests. Probably useless for me anyway since my hit percentage for taking acceptably horizontal shots is probably about 70% (handheld). Let's not even talk about shooting portraits.:(

Nols

the k100d also has tilted horizon or sensor viewfinder mis-allignment, i think. fired a couple of seemingly horizontal shots but came out slightly diagonal. hope warranty covers this...:Shock::Scared:

Reading Mau's concerns over on the Laguna Sunrise EB shoot, I can't help but worry that maybe she has that problem...? Let's hope not.

Yeah, the only way to test it out is using a tripod with a level. I've read elsewhere that the "tilting" can also be attributed to emotionally charged shots, meaning, medyo napindot ng mahigpit dahil sa tuwa, or inis. LoL :D

Yeah, that's happened to me sometimes. Or after a long day of shooting, sometimes your hands will tend to dip to one side. More often than not, that would be the shutter side, while firing away.

Reading Mau's concerns over on the Laguna Sunrise EB shoot, I can't help but worry that maybe she has that problem...? Let's hope not.

I hope not. :( My tripod have level gauge, I'll do lot of horizon shots with a tripod to test it.

I can't believe it. My first experience of someone else trolling in the DGP Pentax forums! LoL

Regardless of the tilt, the Pentax K10D still got the awards in the US, in Australia, in Europe, and in Japan. Regardless of the tilt, the camera can still perform beautifully.

Last time I checked, I had to have the camera in hand most of the time, to, you know, take photos, to frame it and such, make sure it was aligned with what I felt was right at the time of taking the shot. If I was going to be using the tripod a lot, a few degrees would be noticeable for me to adjust accordingly.

Oh, and not all K10D cameras have that defect (Gasp!). If I was going to buy one, I'd try it out, and if I found it was defective, get a replacement right away. Not jump brands and get something else that might be more expensive and not have the features the K10D has.

I find it hard to believe for someone to be sticking to the Pentax brand for 50 years then suddenly jumping wagons because of a tilting issue. That's just ridiculous.

Then again, that same person may have a considerably larger bank account, fair enough, but I'd be getting something more expensive, like the Canon 40D, or the Nikon D300 at the least.

My apologies for ranting. I really appreciate how people post their messages here, so it just ticks me off to see someone disrupt the tone of the forums.

if you are referring to me, if you think or feel that i was trolling with my perfectly legitimate concern, if you feel i am disrupting the tone of the forum - i apologize. but i must thank you nonetheless from the depths of my heart- my daughter is now a proud owner of a CANON 40D albeit with a kit lens. it was your confrmation that the PENTAX K10D has a manufacturing defect that led to the decision. i guess that is the operative word-D-E-F-E-C-T! and my daughter wholeheartedly agreed. mind you, first time that father and daughter had a meeting of the minds.

no- we did not heed your advice to go through boxes of PENTAX K10Ds and pick out the one that has no defect because according to my daughter, it would be akin to going through a bushel of bad apples and trying to find the best one- "oh no" she said "this is my photographic future we're talking about here and i don't give a flying s--t if the PENTAX K10D digitally stamps "CAMERA OF THE YEAR" on the bottom left corner everytime i take a photograph".

no- we didn't decide on the CANON 40D because it is more expensive nor we have a considerably larger bank account. we chose it because it has no advertized defect. the brand CANON did not even play a role in our decision because she couldn't care less- she's been playing with all sorts of camera brands in my possesion as she was growing up. oh yes, from alpas to deardorfs to horsemans to zorkis to pentax to leicas to canon and nikon and almost everything in between. she witnessed how i slaved to utilize these instruments of photography to be able to send them to university and pay off my mortgage. we are not so anal about brands. we use what will work for us.

again thanks for steering us to the CANON 40D and again i apologize if i ticked you off. ping me when the PENTAX K20D is out, will ya?

if you are referring to me, if you think or feel that i was trolling with my perfectly legitimate concern, if you feel i am disrupting the tone of the forum - i apologize. but i must thank you nonetheless from the depths of my heart- my daughter is now a proud owner of a CANON 40D albeit with a kit lens. it was your confrmation that the PENTAX K10D has a manufacturing defect that led to the decision. i guess that is the operative word-D-E-F-E-C-T! and my daughter wholeheartedly agreed. mind you, first time that father and daughter had a meeting of the minds.

no- we did not heed your advice to go through boxes of PENTAX K10Ds and pick out the one that has no defect because according to my daughter, it would be akin to going through a bushel of bad apples and trying to find the best one- "oh no" she said "this is my photographic future we're talking about here and i don't give a flying s--t if the PENTAX K10D digitally stamps "CAMERA OF THE YEAR" on the bottom left corner everytime i take a photograph".

no- we didn't decide on the CANON 40D because it is more expensive nor we have a considerably larger bank account. we chose it because it has no advertized defect. the brand CANON did not even play a role in our decision because she couldn't care less- she's been playing with all sorts of camera brands in my possesion as she was growing up. oh yes, from alpas to deardorfs to horsemans to zorkis to pentax to leicas to canon and nikon and almost everything in between. she witnessed how i slaved to utilize these instruments of photography to be able to send them to university and pay off my mortgage. we are not so anal about brands. we use what will work for us.

again thanks for steering us to the CANON 40D and again i apologize if i ticked you off. ping me when the PENTAX K20D is out, will ya?

hot! hehehe :D

hey basil, heading to canada for xmas, maybe i can get the pancakes there? :P

hot! hehehe :D

hey basil, heading to canada for xmas, maybe i can get the pancakes there? :P

where are u in the u.s.?

where are u in the u.s.?

nasa CALI ako.. punta ako toronto on friday.. pinas ka ba?

nasa CALI ako.. punta ako toronto on friday.. pinas ka ba?

AYE CARAMBA! my wife and daughters are going to barstow, cali on friday din to spend x'mas with relatives. SAYANG, I COULD HAVE ASKED HER TO MEET YOU!

SORRY OFR THE OT GUYS!

AYE CARAMBA! my wife and daughters are going to barstow, cali on friday din to spend x'mas with relatives. SAYANG, I COULD HAVE ASKED HER TO MEET YOU!

SORRY OFR THE OT GUYS!

dang!!! i guess it has to wait.. :P

hello crazy pentaxians.. sorry for the OT... :D

dang!!! i guess it has to wait.. :P

hello crazy pentaxians.. sorry for the OT... :D

ANOTHER OT, MY DEAR PENTAXIANS!

hey paeng,

if you are spending christmas in toronto, make sure you take advantage of BOXING DAY. it'll be worth your while to get up at 4 am on the 26th and line up at HENRY'S- preferrably their flagship store on church and queen for unbelievable photo deals. i know you're gonna freeze your buns but that's the excitement of it. then go to vistek at queen and merkle at victoria park and 401. i heard too that cards will go for just 5 bucks per gig during that day at best buy and future shop. make sure you also check out factory direct for true liquidation deals. heard dual core gateway laptops with i gig memory and120 gig hds will go for just 399 bucks. thats only 16,000 petots!.

ANOTHER OT, MY DEAR PENTAXIANS!

hey paeng,

if you are spending christmas in toronto, make sure you take advantage of BOXING DAY. it'll be worth your while to get up at 4 am on the 26th and line up at HENRY'S- preferrably their flagship store on church and queen for unbelievable photo deals. i know you're gonna freeze your buns but that's the excitement of it. then go to vistek at queen and merkle at victoria park and 401. i heard too that cards will go for just 5 bucks per gig during that day at best buy and future shop. make sure you also check out factory direct for true liquidation deals. heard dual core gateway laptops with i gig memory and120 gig hds will go for just 399 bucks. thats only 16,000 petots!.

thanks for the heads up uncle basil.. :D

merry xmas!

Back to topic... got my K10D today, and I am happy to report that there is no sensor misalignment in mine:D

I would really be critical of this issue if I was to do a lot of scenic shooting with a tripod. Franz, I'm glad to hear your K10D is okay! I wonder if my GX-10...

@Alan: thanks! Hope your GX-10 is fault free as well!:) BTW, Opeth rocks! hehehe... blackwater park is my fave...

Errr.... guys, not all copies of K10D's have this defect. I'm pretty sure of it coz mine doesn't. Dunno how this impression came about as if all units are defective or something. And even if Thom Hogan said he has yet to see a Nikon viewfinder perfectly aligned, my old D40 didn't have that problem either. So I wouldn't dismiss a brand just because someone had a problem with his unit.

But before I eat my words, how about a survey:

1. Roger - K10D - not tilted
2.
3.
.
.
.

@Alan: thanks! Hope your GX-10 is fault free as well!:) BTW, Opeth rocks! hehehe... blackwater park is my fave...

Wow! new body.. how much and where did you get your Franz?:Grin:

Back to topic... got my K10D today, and I am happy to report that there is no sensor misalignment in mine:D

Wohooo!! Congrats Franz! So, when will have an EB to break-in your new gear?:D

Nols

Back to topic... got my K10D today, and I am happy to report that there is no sensor misalignment in mine:D

Congrats on your new camera Franz! Ano, new gear EB shoot na 'to? :D

Jay, got it from the states!

Nols and michael,yep we have to have an eb to break in my new camera! Or we can wait for bong's k10 too,para isahan na lang!hehe.

Bong, ano - are you gonna upgrade to the K10D na? Or are you still waiting for the K20? :D

@Alan: thanks! Hope your GX-10 is fault free as well!:) BTW, Opeth rocks! hehehe... blackwater park is my fave...

Glad to see a fellow metalhead in these pages! :)

Hopefully I can join in on one of your EB's in the future, anlayo ko lang kasi! Hehe!

Jay, got it from the states!

Nols and michael,yep we have to have an eb to break in my new camera! Or we can wait for bong's k10 too,para isahan na lang!hehe.

Congrats on the upgrade Franz! If we continue with the summer weather, how about a Sunset EB next week after christmas (Dec. 28/29?) to break-in your K10D! Location: Pililla, Rizal viewpoint:)

Bong, ano - are you gonna upgrade to the K10D na? Or are you still waiting for the K20? :D

Hmmm. The MZ-3 I used rocks! I think I'll sell my MZ5n for that instead ... :Grin:

I took this photo to make sure if my k100d super has tilt problem. I put the cam in a flat surface concrete.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2390/2145562133_6c14f13686.jpg

I took this photo to make sure if my k100d super has tilt problem. I put the cam in a flat surface concrete.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2390/2145562133_6c14f13686.jpg

Don't see any tilt, mau! Beware of growing urban legends:Evil:

I took this photo to make sure if my k100d super has tilt problem. I put the cam in a flat surface concrete.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2390/2145562133_6c14f13686.jpg

Yup, definitely, it looks like you have a tilted concrete slab. :D :Grin:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/gurling/misalignedsample.jpg

The photo doesn't show any sign of tilting... At least tilting that you should be worried about.

Or a tilted eye problemhttp://digitalphotographer.com.ph/forum/images/smilies/Drogar-Laugh%28DBG%29.gif:D